https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3cucye/ an_old_team_at_reddit/
ID:1893204
 Jul 10 2015, 3:37 pm
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This just in, chairman Pao's regime has been toppled.
https://www.reddit.com/r/announcements/comments/3cucye/ an_old_team_at_reddit/ | |
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Jul 10 2015, 3:51 pm
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EmpirezTeam
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summarize what this was all about cos im too lazy to read all that
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Short version:
Reddit decides it's a good idea to start banning subreddits based on their content. Among them: /r/fatpeoplehate /r/coontown /r/shitniggerssay Ellen Pao says they are not banning ideas, but rather behavior. There is no sufficient evidence for any negative behavior other than having views that people find offensive. Reddit revolts, people start voicing dissent. Admins shadowban anyone who is voicing any kind of dissent, which is a terrible idea for a user-generated-content aggregator. Stuff calms down. A week later, they fire a popular employee. In doing so, they crippled the operations of one of the most popular subreddits, AMAA. Reddit had no backup plan for dealing with several celebrity AMAs that were scheduled for that day, and the moderators of AMA decide to make the subreddit private. Within 8 hours, 75% of reddit has been set to private in dissent against the way that reddit is being managed. Ellen Pao refuses to make a public statement on reddit, instead does several interviews saying that "most redditors don't care about what's going on.". This is seen by many users as a spit in the face because she's basically discounted the fact that 75% of reddit was not working at all, and the remaining 25% of reddit that was working was being flooded with people basically revolting. A week later, she makes an apology to reddit, but the admins completely silence almost all dissent, claiming that everything removed were threats and harassment. Evidence is shown everywhere that this is not true. It's not two weeks later and Ellen Pao has been asked to step down after less than five full months at the helm of Reddit.com. | |
Rekt.
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People revolted to get those two racist subreddits back... Or...?
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People revolted to get those two racist subreddits back... Or...? It was less about the fact that people liked racist subreddits. The problem was that it was setting a dangerous precedent of "permitted" speech. People were getting concerned that the administrators were going to start banning "negative" speech. Reddit needs the ability to criticize and call people and companies out, otherwise it can't function properly. Banning unpopular speech is seen as being the first step toward banning critical speech and basically undermining the good that the platform is able to do. | |
You can't seriously be comparing the removal of fatshaming/racist/etc content to the suppression of criticism? Unpopular speech is one thing, harassment and hateful intolerance is another. Would you start allowing such threads here on BYOND?
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AINT DAT A LOGICAL FALLACY?
"WE CANT LET THEM BAN NIGGER SPEECH, BECAUSE NEXT THING YOU KNOW, THEY'LL BE BANNING ALL SPEECH!" | |
Metamorphman wrote:
You can't seriously be comparing the removal of fatshaming/racist/etc content to the suppression of criticism? Unpopular speech is one thing, harassment and hateful intolerance is another. Would you start allowing such threads here on BYOND? I agree with this. | |
BYOND isn't anything like reddit, so you can't compare the two.
He didn't compare anything there. He said that once they choose to censor one thing, it's only a matter of time before they choose to censor another and another and another. | |
I've always though all people were beneath me. So ive never had a racist problem. Why think one pigment of skin is beneath me when i can beleive all of you are my subjects to amuse me.
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When did I compare anything? You just put a bunch of words in my mouth.
As a matter of fact, when did I claim that I even agreed with either side at all? To further illustrate my point, when did I say "I" before this post at all? Metamorphman wrote: You can't seriously be comparing the removal of fatshaming/racist/etc content to the suppression of criticism? Unpopular speech is one thing, harassment and hateful intolerance is another. Would you start allowing such threads here on BYOND? You assumed that I took one position in opposition to the other based on me explaining what actually happened, and why people were arguing that she needed to step down, and why they claimed they were "revolting". Pao's side of the argument is hard to explain without a lot of speculation because they are in a position where they can't really make a lot of public statements. They lost, and Reddit's board of investors lost confidence in Pao regardless of whether she was good for the company or not. When a company becomes about the person running it, that's either a really good thing or a really, really bad thing for business. She was probably offered a severance check or a vote of no confidence. She probably decided that it was in her best interests to leave first because of how poorly they handled the situation and it's in her better interest to take the check and not risk the career damage of a vote of no confidence. | |
Or she got straight up fired for her incompetence.
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Or she got straight up fired for her incompetence. The company called it a mutual resignation. Maybe, but I kind of doubt it. She didn't actually seem that bad, but she either was or was made out to be a liability which you can't really have at the helm. | |
It's not about agreeing with hateful speech, it's about being ok with people voicing their opinions -- racist or what have you. Reddit is one of the few places in this world that is both popularly used and open to any kind of discussion. I hate Nazis, for example, but there are people all around the world that identify with Nazi ideals. They truly believe what they're saying even though people like me find them repugnant. The reason the redditors revolted is because they believe that we all need to be able to have a voice and discuss. Everyone, regardless of their worldview, believes their worldview to be correct -- even fatshamers and racists.
Don't get me wrong, I still pity those types of people. And I've never visited any of the aforementioned subreddits. | |
There is also something to be said for keeping those kinds of people above ground where you can see them.
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EmpirezTeam wrote:
AINT DAT A LOGICAL FALLACY? Well, I actually believe that if we can't have hate speech, we can't really have speech. I have hate speech towards me, and I don't really go for hate speech, but sometimes I like to involve myself in it. Though usually I am told I am using hate speech whenever I discuss the glories of Adolf Hitler. Before it goes any further, acting on hate speech is a step further, and should be something restrained. | |
The admin in-fighting on reddit is almost as bad as some of the petty squabbles I've seen here on BYOND. With all the new information coming out, I'm beginning to believe that Pao was brought on specifically to make a bunch of changes the community wouldn't like before being tossed under the bus with a new CEO taking the helm, keeping all of "Pao's" changes intact. It doesn't seem quite as bad as the Digg catastrophe, but I wouldn't be surprised if a new social media platform similar to reddit rises in popularity within the next two years.
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