This is the one of the biggest threads I have ever seen and it's still getting more posts..

There are limits on freedom, such as murder. If you murder someone, you goto jail. That is what he meant. Besides, Freedom of Speech does not mean you can say anything. You cannot say things that can put other people's lives in danger.

Jmurph wrote:

Heh, well you guys need to deal with Blair right now, so don't act like it's all peaches and cream over there, either ;-)

don't you mean fish and chips? :-p

Freedoms should be restricted to an extend.. We all know that nazism is far superiour.

Xooxer wrote:

Slavery is slavery. There's no "nice" slavery. There's no happy slaves. And what rights? Show the me the passages.

It is highly known that the slaves of Egypt owned their own property somthing slaves of not to long ago couldn't do. They had individual housing for famllies. Ofcourse the slaves arn't going to be happy or nice. Infact it was probally most of their lazyness and law breaking that brought them down into slavery.

Then you have the unlucky few that were taken into slaver unfairly.. The Israelites.. Then Eqypt began treating the slaves more harshly and God delivered them from Egypt.

Really? That's not what the bible says. Here, allow me to wax biblical:
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Mathew 15:3
For God commanded, saying, Honour thy father and mother: and, He that curseth father or mother, let him die the death.
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Sure sounds like Jesus promotes the murder of children to me. Oh, but there's more:

And you present it in a way out of context.. It is preached to Christians that sons and daughters who don't respect their mother and father will die(Translation: Go to hell.. Hell has always been called ''The Death'' or ''Second Death'')

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Rvelations 2:20 to 2:23
Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.

And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.

Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.

And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

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Here we hear Jesus through the word of John saying he'll kill all the children of Jezebele. I thought Jesus loved the little children? Why is he so quick to smite them?

Do you remember that verse with the man being murder and his blood crying out for revenge? That blood represented what could have been that man's children, grand-children, and so on.. God applys the same thing here by killing Jez.

The bible promotes murder. I can quote passages that tell us to kill directly, but I would be here all night. Take a few minutes to read your damn bible before claiming to know what it says.

It does speak of some old penalties for crime which are quite stiff, however. Though our government punishes for some things that aren't even wrong at all, which - although not quite as bad - is still comparible to overstrict penalties for crimes.

Murdering children because of the acts of their fathers is comparable to a life setence for commiting murder? They're not even in the same league!

As I said above.. That isn't what is being done or was done.

It does not promote child abuse either. Disciplining a child is nessessary in many instances, to spare that when needed is to spoil the child so that it may very well grow up to do much worse than what you would have otherwise done to the child.

Let me quote the passage you misquoted, then we'll see what the bible says about discipline:
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Proverbs 13:24
He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.
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Oh, but there's more. Not only should you beat your children, but pay no attention to their cries!
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Proverbs 19:18
Chasten thy son while there is hope, and let not thy soul spare for his crying.
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But what if you injure them? No worries, what are a few broken bones, or even death, compared to eternal life in Heaven?
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Proverbs 23:13 tp 23:14
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.

Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
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I think the bible most certainly promotes child abuse. Death for disobeying your parents? Beatings to teach and cleans sins? Horrific!

Physical Disclipine has been main way way of Disclpining for a long time now. It brings an entirely diffrent arguement to the table.. And comes up cleary on how you define abuse. If my kid breaks a window on my car. His butt is going to be so raw that he won't be able to sit down. I will guarantee you he won't do it again.

No, that's telling it how the bible says it is. It has nothing to do with the real world, and should have nothing to do with runnning our country.

Wich has brought up another point in opinion.. Some people beleive the Bible should be based off Goverment.. Some don't.. Neither sides can refute to a point where another changes it's opinion.

That's funny. I'd rather listen to a well organized, thought-out and eloquent speach than some guy just jabbering away with no flow or direction.

Whereas I would rather know what he really wants to say and how he would say it. I would like to know what really comes to mind so I could know the candidate better.. Ofcourse I am implying mainly to Presidential debates.

Yeah, the preacher down the road is alive, and not insane.

You realize that's what you're doing, right?

Both sides are guilty in this.. End of story.

So, to test Jesus' claims that unruley children must have the sin beaten out of them, I should take two kids, beat one and not the other, then see how they do? Yeah.. right.

Strict disclipine guides Children to path. Depending on what he was disclipined for decides what path it is. Ofcourse I am referring real abuses who beat their children unconcious to be going on the wrong path. There are also many more forms of disclipine used (Petticoating and the Dr.Phil methods for instance) but physical disclipine is the most accepted form and from what I can tell it works just as fine as any other method.

Silly, it will never happen. Marriage does not belong to christians. It never has.

Agreed.. The only part that belongs to relegion is the oath to God and it is the only part that belongs to the Churchs and other relegions. If your congregation says ''Gay marriage? Okie Dokie!'' Then they can make that oath under God. But wether it is a the right path.. It will never be know 100% by a person until his Death. Possibly you won't even know then if many people's theory of God's non-existance is true.. But in my mind that isn't an issue because I feel that I know what is in next life.

~X

~Text