"Wanna have sex?"

Thats all you need to say.

~>Jiskuha

Errr... Your words just cant minipulate a girls mind into thinking that she likes you, I blame it all on hormones >.<

it depends on your degree of experience... I shouldn't have used very easily though... a lot of people would have a hard time. I've just dealt with a lot of people in my time (I moved around a lot when I was younger so constantly had to learn how to please people in short periods of time). So perhaps it's easier for me but harder for others... I've never really had a problem with keeping a girl interested when I wanted her to be, and uninterested when I don't want her to be.

That's not to say I use them for sex... I definately do not. I'm a good boy :P

(This is coming form someone who has been in a sexual relationship and who is currentally after a girl who doesn't want to go out with him.)

Telling a girl you love her, is a bad mistake.
Love is a too powerful a word to be used in that situation.
First you should just get to know her. A lot, make her comfortable with your presence. So she likes to be around you and stuff. Become good friends as they say. Then if either of you feel you want to go to the next level, propose it to the other party. If either of you doesn't, don't get upset, you still have a good friendship to fall back on.

no I still believe I could still string them along... but I wouldn't want to, as that would mean being with someone that I felt the need to string them along for... which is why it's never happened. I think you're getting the wrong impression from me. Arogance maybe, but how about just plain common sense. If I went up to a girl and said hey I play on byond 24/7, my house is a mess my dishes have bacterea growing on them and I didn't completely wipe my butt she wouldn't be that interested unless I somehow managed to pull off a wonderful joy that strikes a tone in her ears and she (strangely) likes it. Even then, it's only because it appealed to her. That's the whole point, we all have an ideal mate (obviously) and if you can become that ideal mate then what reasons would there to not date them?

Whether I know how to have someone long term or even make a long distance relationship work (I had a 3 year relationship which I broke off because I didn't love her when I thought I did, basically I would have loved her if she knew how to keep my happy long term) doesn't really matter. The whole point is it's very possible to continue to string someone along.

I think we are all machines. I could be played just as easily as any one else. It's hard not to accept someone who has all the right qualities... and if they truely had all the right qualities, there'd be no real reason to leave them either.

I got a question for you, who's worst:

Two males go out for a nice evening with a female with no intention of being with them long term. The female is hot and very short minded. The first guy is the type of guy who you find to be the biggest creep in the world.

The first guy is a jerk, a complete butt head. Yet, he plays this perfect guy for the girl... does everything she wants for a good time, and she has just that - A WONDERFUL TIME. She goes home happy, and knowing she's not going to see him again and had a beautiful evening.

Then there's the nice guy, the guy who refuses to try to woo her with all these things that she has as ideals (because it's manipulating for a shallow intention), and he tells her exactly how it is. He lives with his parents, he plans to for another three years and he plays video games 24/7 with no job or life. His personality consists mostly of talking a bout intellectual things like how the mind works and she's bored stiff by this. She goes home regreting the whole experience, yet he wasn't a bad guy was he?

Another thing:
The thing is - no one has different intentions. Your goals may be different (long term, short term, fling, or anything else relationship wise), but without intimacy (kissing, signs of affection, etc) there's really no relationship it's just a very emotional bond or friendship. Intimacy is what divides personally for me what is a relationship and what is a friendship. So am I a good person for not doing the things she wants her ideal partner to do (don't deny women focus on the emotional aspect of things)? Or should I do it because it'd make her happy and her intimacy more potent?

Would we even bother talking to someone if we weren't interested in them? Would we still bother listening to what they say? Last time I checked, when you despise someone you're not so interested in hearing what they say. Emotions are what makes something exist in our lives, if there weren't any emotions attached to something then it'd just be a ripple in the paint on our bedroom wall. So how can you even judge a morality on this type of situation that is actually purely selfish and/or shallow just without the concious realization of so? We attach meanings or rationalizations to things. A common excuse for being a slut with someone is "I was in love with him". Love makes it socially acceptable to have sex in America. No one is going to question whether having sex with someone you love is a bad thing... Yet I believe we love everyone to a small extent.

If you look at a lot of the ways different Apes and Monkies have partners you see a huge resemblance to how we have partners. Some have partners by leading them with fear, others through affection... some through committment and trust. Some don't even care about bonds and a whole group of monkies will end up sleeping with eachother (which happens in humans). All done by manipulation... regardless how you go about it we are manipulating eachother most of the time whether intentionally or unintentionally. I know using monkies and Apes are a really bad example to use... but I'm tired, I just found out the girl I've been dating a few days ago has been to *The equivalent of roman bath parties* and I actually liked her... and I try to be a good boy in terms of those aspects in my life. Sex really has no place in my life, that doesn't mean I don't help others out with getting it...

We're ALL ASPIRING HEDONISTS no matter how you look at it. Whether we strive for it through sex, drugs, video games, movies, food, or sleep... it's all just pleasure and happiness.

You go through an awful lot of "thought" (to use the term loosely) to justify being a deliberately insincere jerk. I
stand by everything I said and believe you will be alone a very, very long time.

I mean, congratulations on "making a relationship work" for three years, but reading between the lines... this was an internet/long distance relationship and you realized you didn't love her either after spending a lot of time with her realside, or when that prospect loomed? When's the last time you had a long term relationship with somebody who can see your face when you lie out your ass? Who lives close enough to try to reconcile what you tell her with real life?

I've seen what passes for your people skills. I've seen your ability to read what you think a person wants to hear. I've seen your ability to understand somebody's emotional reactions. To sum it up in three simple words: Rasputin you ain't.

So I see you saying things like the world is full of women who aren't up to your standards and I see you saying that sex has no place in your life. You know what? Sour grapes. Defensive rationalization. You don't know how to form a sincere long-term attachment, but rather than address this you have arranged your social life in a way that this social deficiency doesn't matter... and you've convinced yourself that it is the norm and that you're just more honest about it.

I can also tell by your post that your life experience is still extremely limited (big surprise, as you are what... 18?)... America is still the last bastion of puritanism in the developed world. America is full of people who question those who have sex with someone because of alleged love. I have a feeling your horribly skewed perspective is based in large part on high-school level dating... which again, goes a long way towards explaining where you're coming from... but like almost everything else that happens in high school, it's not a great model to use for dealing with the rest of the world.

You'll find out, though. :P

Oh, and your examples are horribly flawed in one: if a guy is a complete butthead who's willing to lie and tell the girl exactly what she wants to hear, she's not going to go home knowing she'll never see him again.

The answer to who's worse is both guys are complete and total social morons with no idea how to relate to somebody else as an adult.

Hedgemistress wrote:

You go through an awful lot of "thought" (to use the term loosely) to justify being a deliberately insincere jerk. I
stand by everything I said and believe you will be alone a very, very long time.

then you're not as smart as I thought you were... that's one of the most broadest assumptions based off knowing absolutely nothing of me but how I like to irritate you online for not being a very good person in your past byond life. I must admit, I do enjoy this.

I mean, congratulations on "making a relationship work" for three years, but reading between the lines... this was an internet/long distance relationship and you realized you didn't love her either after spending a lot of time with her realside, or when that prospect loomed? When's the last time you had a long term relationship with somebody who can see your face when you lie out your ass? Who lives close enough to try to reconcile what you tell her with real life?

I've seen what passes for your people skills. I've seen your ability to read what you think a person wants to hear. I've seen your ability to understand somebody's emotional reactions. To sum it up in three simple words: Rasputin you ain't.

Wowa, lots of assumptions there. My 3 year relationship was in person, and long distance for one year... she ended up going to a college far away that she got accepted to. Do you think I care online? Is there something I want from you or anyone else online that would make me strive for acceptance? Understanding emotional reactions online, is that even possible beyond words? Online everyone is just a face you paint on to a little alias which if you were to meet that person in real life would probably be a lie... I can't tell online if something is going to offend someone else, etc... until they respond with words.

So I see you saying things like the world is full of women who aren't up to your standards and I see you saying that sex has no place in your life. You know what? Sour grapes. Defensive rationalization. You don't know how to form a sincere long-term attachment, but rather than address this you have arranged your social life in a way that this social deficiency doesn't matter... and you've convinced yourself that it is the norm and that you're just more honest about it.

The world is full of women who are aspiring hedonists who search through life for pleasure and fun (have it be socialization or sex) which isn't my cup of tea so yes. Not that there's anything wrong with that and I'm a better person because I'm not that way... The girl I'm dating now I would never have guessed she's been with so many guys, even had threesomes... she was so nice, modest and respectable it got past me and I wasn't intelligent on this one. I'm not always right about things, and I can't read everything. I can read enough that I stay out of trouble, or am able to get in good with a girl.
I don't see how I want to be anything like them, so that's why sex has no place in my life unless I somehow find someone I would want to be with long term. I do not desire to be fullfilled, it doesn't matter to me. I don't desire a lot of things. I just go through life trying to understand, and I formulate weird ideas like I am now. You can read all your little books you've read to formulate your opinions from, but I'm still striving to come up with original ideas and even though I'm bad at it I could probably find the books from which you got half your junk. How many people have you heard argue from my standpoint? I've heard tons argue from yours. Hell half the time in real life I argue against myself in an arguement for fun to hopefully find something I didn't think of when I argued for/against it, or I'll bring up wacky and crazy ideas that might not be sociably acceptable just to see what kind of reactions I get.

Defensive rationalization? Trying to use psychology terms won't work on me... everyone in my family is a psychology major, and if you think I don't think about these type of things about myself already you're gravely mistaken. Half the time I play different persona's for fun. They hound me like you do all the time, and I think they're the ones that are crazy and I play along with their little games, because they think they're so smart when they're the ones way more unhappy than I am, and don't see beyond the books they've read.

convinced myself of a norm? The reason I don't hang on to friends/girlfriends too long is because I actually think about things before I do them, I'm not just a "silent observer" or a "action taker". I don't live for the moment, but I don't avoid the moment either. My social life is enough so that I don't develop norms from social gatherings and exist in a consistent lifestyle, I'm always trying to change things up. Obviously I'm going to develop norms that I convince myself of, and is that any different or worst then the norms you convince yourself of? You wouldn't be here argueing with me right now if you didn't have your own little ideals about this situation.

I can also tell by your post that your life experience is still extremely limited (big surprise, as you are what... 18?)... America is still the last bastion of puritanism in the developed world. America is full of people who question those who have sex with someone because of alleged love. I have a feeling your horribly skewed perspective is based in large part on high-school level dating... which again, goes a long way towards explaining where you're coming from... but like almost everything else that happens in high school, it's not a great model to use for dealing with the rest of the world.

Question people who have sex? Not quite. Majority of my friends have had more sex then they can count. I help people with their sexual problems all the time, and I definately don't taboo it. I just don't aspire for pleasure and happiness means nothing to me. Nice stereotyping about high school. My horribly skewed perspective? Just read what you say... I'm excited about replying to your posts because they are intelligent to an extent (but rediculous at the same time), but I like just argueing for the sake of argueing because you're the one getting irritated... You may not seem as mean as you were in the past but honestly you haven't changed much. The site's just got a little more administrative.

You'll find out, though. :P

Oh, and your examples are horribly flawed in one: if a guy is a complete butthead who's willing to lie and tell the girl exactly what she wants to hear, she's not going to go home knowing she'll never see him again.

The answer to who's worse is both guys are complete and total social morons with no idea how to relate to somebody else as an adult.

it was a controled example as in this is what happens in this example, who's a better person. I understand that if she really liked him she'd probably want to see him again, but lets just say it was a one night stand which is what I was getting at. I was using those two examples because they are the two most common suggestions given to people struggling with a girl. "Just be yourself!" or "Hit it and quit it." I infact never hear, "Be smart and just manipulate her when you can do so morally permissably."

face it lexy, neither me or you has the right to assume that anything is a jerk, or is bad/good... we're just humans. We will anyway, and we will try to enforce those ideals on others because our ideas are like genes... we want them to spread like wildfire, not die off. You're still the same old person I remember :P

I got to give you credit, you're not as mean as you used to be even if it is due to other powers restricting what you can do and say.

Right and Wrong waver very little. While I enjoyed your thrashing of hedgemistress's post... I'd have to argue that morals are not relative to perception, but are concrete in the way of cause and effect. If an action by one person is detrimental to another, then that action is immoral. In addition, I would argue that if a person's action hurts the self, then it is immoral as well. When someone argues that there is no clear right and wrong, it ussually means that that person doesn't want to be held accountable for their actions. Because, if they were to find out that they were responsible for all the things they'd done, it'd make them feel uneasy, even worse, that person might even have to change the way they're behaving. Is it right to judge someone else's behavior? Only if you are willing to be judged the same way.

Now, someone might argue along the lines that, "How can you say what's right and wrong, when you yourself have done wrong as well?" In this case, it must be pointed out that we all screw up, we all make mistakes, but the fact that we screw up does not make what is right and wrong change, it remains constant.

The best thing we can do when someone else screws up is to try to understand them, to see if we can bring ourselves to forgive them. In a matter of law, justice must be carried out, unless circumstances of the offense warrant additonal hearing, and understanding, in which case that person can be pardoned.

While I got off on a rant here, it just goes to show how much of this moral grey area stuff really bothers me. People are grey, we are made up of good actions and bad actions (white and black), circumstances can be grey, but morals will always be clear.

My last point: A civilization relys upon the societies that it is built upon, if those societies (which could be said to be made up of families) do not have clear boundaries, they will not have clear laws, if this occurs, chaos will gain a foothold, and slowly debilitate and incapacitate law and order, inexorably, this will cause the societies which are the pillars of the civilization, to collapse.

Actually, yes. Sometimes personalities just click well together. And some women are more likely to look past your looks than others. It just depends. The best thing you can do for yourself is discipline. It's the hardest thing to do, but if you can master it, you can accomplish just about anything as long as you don't die before hand.

Yes of course I totally agree. Laws and regulations are there to keep the people who aren't smart enough to understand them within the boundries of society within a straight line of "acceptance". Do not steal, do not murder, etc... are all common sense to a good majority of us so the rules dont' really apply to us since we'd never do them. They're mostly for the guys who don't understand it.

Responsibility is a kicker though, a lot of people use it as a way to manipulate someone to do something for nothing and I hate that feeling when they use it on me in that way.

Without evil there cannot be good. So sometimes you need evil in order to be able to define good...

There is a ton of situational backwards morals:

A lady has two children connected at the hip, if she disconnects the one with the mental disorder that one will never learn to think past a 2 year old... if she disconnects the other, it'll live a normal life for approximately 5 years and then die of heart problems. If she chooses to disconnect any of them then the other one would die and vice versa. This was an actual real life situation. If she chose to not disconnect them, they both would have died in two years.

Another thing - sometimes you can try doing right but end up doing wrong. At my work the new people that come there always try to be good by puting back my carts of shoes. This actually ends up causing me more work, and can even get me in trouble if they put the shoes back and the district manager came by while I was on break and he'd be like why doesn't he have everything prepared to run shoes when he gets back? They don't know better, their intentions are good but they could end up doing a lot of bad to me.

Another case I was helping a friend break up with a suicidal emotional attachment female. We wrote up a battle plan of what he was going to do. Basically become a bad boyfriend so that she makes the mental choice that she doesn't like him anymore and wants to move on. It ends up working, but everyone see's him as a jerk. She moves on and finds someone else and is in a very happy relationship. There wasn't any alternative for us to do, as she was suicidal (we caught her trying to committ suicide) when he tried to break up with her. It was so successful that somehow she managed to lesson her feelings for him in the experience, and ended the relationship not hating him (which is a good sign of no love for him since hate cannot form without love somewhere in the equation in my opinion).

It's funny how morals can be so complicated, which sometimes makes them meaningless because you realize some people don't have the mental capabilities to understand such complex moral situations so it's not even a choice for them to be good or whatever in these types of situations. Likewise, some people are going to be a certain way for the rest of their lives good or bad.

PS: If I was actually serious with argueing with Lexy I would have attacked her with her own arguement and then not said anything else... I know I'm joking/just having fun with my ideas but she deliberately attacked me for them which shows :

Egotism
she claimed this was my fault ironically turns out to be hers as well since she was thinking she has the better ideas than me and tried to push those ideas on me with very negative/aggressive ways of doing so (which ironically hitler comes up for me when I talk about this and I don't know why the most extreme example comes up for an internet quarl).

Selfish
She attacked me immediately in a negative manner and trying to inflict pain on me.

Social Inexperience/Ignorance
She's talked to me this way for years, but hasn't yet figured out it isn't the way to get through to me. Ironically, talking to me like I'm an idiot, or attacking me verbally doesn't really seem to connect with me. Yet I'm the socially inexperienced one. I guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks.


If you were to break me down you'd get a lot of things, in fact you could assume a lot as well but none of it would matter since I just talk for fun, I'm not trying to hurt anyone but I might get offensive and try to defend myself against people like Hedge...