Whats with all these programming levels and knowing what is what level and what level you are.
I think myself to be a Intermediate Programmer.
Beginner-------Intermediate---B-----Advanced
Id consider myself where the B is.
I dont really know what level I am, how do you determine how "good" you are.
ID:186144
 Aug 16 2005, 1:10 pm
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Aug 16 2005, 1:14 pm
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Wizkidd0123
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Lummox once made a good post about this (id:312975).
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Lummox once made a good post about this (id:312975). Yeah I think this misconception tends to crop up due to the fact that the BYOND community largely consists of people who are learning to program in their first language so even simple things and various voodoo debugging techniques can impress peers leaving people feeling like they know more than they really do. However this mentality is largely dangerous to the ego when they are confronted by a real programmer's work and feel largely intimidated because they don't understand any of it. I know there was a forum post a little while back with someone being annoyed since they felt like they were an advanced programmer but didn't understand any of a snippet of code from LummoxJR. | |
Theodis wrote:
Lummox once made a good post about this (id:312975). Aye. Of course I have much the same reaction when confronted by Dan's work. I know there was a forum post a little while back with someone being annoyed since they felt like they were an advanced programmer but didn't understand any of a snippet of code from LummoxJR. Well, to play newbie's advocate here, it's not that far-fetched to believe an advanced programmer would have difficulty reading a snippet of my code. Lummox JR | |
Lummox JR wrote:
Well, to play newbie's advocate here, it's not that far-fetched to believe an advanced programmer would have difficulty reading a snippet of my code. Difficulty...nah. Generally your code is cleaner than some of the others' snippets, so if you understand all of the functions being called, order of operations, and basic arithmetic, you can generally figure out the workings of The Lummox Code, although I will not try to claim any "guru" or advanced level of programming. Although I do feel that I am at least somewhat intermediate....I have had to check the reference several times to understand some peoples' code. Hiead | |
Nope, you're somewhere from newbie to internewbiate.
I begin my illustration with [link], carrying over a serious amount of bad code from another person's post. This includes misuse of usr (the last line is wrong), and of course still has the horrific goto used by the original poster. In [link] you're trying to execute code after del(src). Good luck with that. [link] is altogether wrong; Bump() doesn't work that way, nor do arguments work that way. Knowing how Bump() works is one of the basics. Another staple of DM knowledge is that if you have two arguments and only send one to the proc, the second one will always be null; in that post you seemed to assume DM would choose which argument to fill in based on the type, which it does not. Another easy-to-spot problem with that code snippet is the fact that your bullet has no density, so it'll never bump into anything. Granted GhostAnime didn't catch that either, and he compounded the problem by slightly misusing the : operator--which even an intermediate programmer should avoid. The ..() proc was an easy solution to [link], which is something an internewbiate should know. [link] features an equipment system no intermediate programmer would ever write. I don't expect a newbie to immediately grasp why obj.equipped=1 is crap but mob.weapon=theweapon is correct, but it's one of the first lessons of good design in DM. If you were at an intermediate level, that equipment system would work right. Also, defining equip verbs under mob/Guns instead of obj/Guns probably wasn't the best idea. [link] has an attempt to remove type paths rather than actual objects from a contents list. Even if the actual objects were removed rather than type paths (since that doesn't work), you'd usually still want to delete them or do something with them unless you're confident that no other references to those objs exist and they'll simply disappear on their own. All of the above are posts made just this past month. I do see you've been learning quite a bit, so you're definitely on track, but you're not quite at internewbiate level yet. Keep at it, though, because you're getting there. Lummox JR | |
Lummox JR wrote:
Nope, you're somewhere from newbie to internewbiate. And that's the Stone-Cold truth. Heh, internewbiate. I begin my illustration with [link], carrying over.... [4 HOURS LATER] .... Lummox JR You really put an effort into this post. I sure hope you don't pick me apart to disprove my idea of me being an intermediate+ programmer :) (I hope I didn't leave too much negative evidence) So, uh, did you just do a forum search in Code Problems by Blakdragon or did you just recall every single instance you mentioned. If you brought them from memory...scary. Hiead | |
I'd like to think I'm past intermediate, but I rarely actualy manage to get much work done, and I'm so quiet that 99% of people who read this post wont actualy have a clue who I am.
Exploder is probably one of my most solid games I got on byond (which is actualy downloadable) that is a decent show of skill, and I'm very happy at the way that one has turned out. I'd be happy to have my "level" based on that. (I'd like to do a computer AI opponant for it too, one day...). | |
I would consider you intermediate also...I have seen most of your work, starting all the way back with DSC..I do see how you have progressed though.
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Hiead wrote:
Lummox JR wrote: I coined the term to describe my target audience for Dream Tutor. Those are people who are pretty comfortable with the basics but looking to become more of an intermediate programmer. You really put an effort into this post. I sure hope you don't pick me apart to disprove my idea of me being an intermediate+ programmer :) (I hope I didn't leave too much negative evidence) I haven't seen too many of your code posts, but my general impression to this point has been that you're more of a newbie yet, possibly somewhere up to internewbiate. Intermediate programming falls more in the realm of what I described in that other post, as cited by Wizkidd. Intermediate skill usually comes both from significant experience with programming and from a fairly solid understanding of a particular language. So, uh, did you just do a forum search in Code Problems by Blakdragon or did you just recall every single instance you mentioned. If you brought them from memory...scary. I just did a search with author:blakdragon77 and <dm>. Basically I wanted to deflate the common notion that there are so many advanced programmers floating around, and that each person who thinks they are actually is one. As I've said before, most of the people who are considered "gurus" of the community are at the intermediate level or just above, and that's really not too many people. There are probably only about half a dozen advanced programmers in the BYOND community. And all this is basically by way of helping people improve. Someone who thinks they're halfway to advanced but can't write a proper equipment system to save their lives is obviously deluding themselves. Someone who doesn't use robust programming techniques hasn't been burned enough to know better. And heck, no small few of these people think they're qualified to help people in Code Problems and end up confusing matters even further by knowing not the first thing about what they're doing; they only make more work for the rest of us trying to clean up their mess. Gads it's tempting to name names there. Lummox JR | |
Acebloke wrote:
I'd like to think I'm past intermediate, but I rarely actualy manage to get much work done, and I'm so quiet that 99% of people who read this post wont actualy have a clue who I am. Well, I've never seen any code posts from you, but it's almost a dead certainty you're not where you think you are. Likely you're not at the intermediate level; that takes a certain degree of experience. BYOND doesn't have terribly many true intermediates. Exploder is probably one of my most solid games I got on byond (which is actualy downloadable) that is a decent show of skill, and I'm very happy at the way that one has turned out. I'd be happy to have my "level" based on that. (I'd like to do a computer AI opponant for it too, one day...). Quality of code often has more to do with this than quality of game. I haven't played Exploder myself, so no judgments either way there. Lummox JR | |
The Old DSC wasnt much to look at lol. I do have alot of better stuff in the works, but like I said, no time.
You should excuse alot of the stuff I have in the hub, I really only stuck some of them on cause of the quick time I usualy have them done by (I tend to aim to complete most of my games within 3 hours, else I'll never go back to it) and just so I keep myself a little happier knowing my 3+ years on here hasnt been spent on DSC all the time, lol. Exploder, enviroment and the New DSC is the only "nice" ones I have listed at the moment. Battlestar was a true classic in the making. Advice for you all: if your girlfriend is on top of you, do not place a coke bottle without a lid right on top of your laptop, you'll regret it later. | |
I classify myself as...probably a beginner, somewhat progressing though... If you look at my code, sometimes sloppy, and has usr in procs...blah blah.
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I try not to use usr in procs. Most of the time I don't, but I had one time where src refused to work.
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Lummox JR wrote:
but it's almost a dead certainty you're not where you think you are. Likely you're not at the intermediate level; that takes a certain degree of experience. BYOND doesn't have terribly many true intermediates. Just wanna back myself up abit :P I was using that link to your post to define my level, I'm confident that I could do all the intermediate stuff blindfolded (ever try coding blindfolded ? its not as hard as it seems :P it sure spices up coding things XD), and about half the "advanced" stuff. I'll admit I'd fall short on making complex algorithms, and I sure dont "optimize" my code as much as I should XD. If I can get her back to her old greatness, I'll have to show you the Damita AI one day (at this rate the far distant future XD). edit: I'm so tired, I'm not usualy this cheerful, now I need to get on a train to london... | |