In response to Jp
Jp wrote:
and the US isn't the only (Well, a, either) bastion of freedom in the world. I think I'd prefer to live in Sweden then the US.

That's a nasty, low blow. While I live in the US and I know that some of my freedoms are being trampled on, suggesting that there are free countries in the world but that the US isn't one of them and in fact is less desirable than others is silly. I dislike a lot of the nonsense going on in the country I live in, but I wouldn't say that the US is outside this bastion of freedom you speak of while Sweden is.

Although I hate some of what goes on in the US, there is no country currently in existence that I think is completely free, and I'd rather live here than in most other countries. If you would rather live in Sweden that's fine, but it's more because of an oppinion than because of vast differences of freedom.

I'll agree that the war is not for the survival of freedom, but that's as far as I'll take it.

As for fighting fire with fire, setting controlled fires is done to aid in fighting wild fire, and it does help. You cut off the fire's supply of fuel before it gets there, then it can't continue to spread. As long as the secondary fires are kept under control and then put out, it can stop the initial fire cold in its tracks better than anything else.

I disagree slightly on the point that led to that analogy as well, but not completely. You cannot beat the terrorists just by improving their condition, and you cannot beat them just through war. You have to have a strategic blend of the two strategies: helping their situation can deter those that are not hardcore, bloodthirsty radicals, but the ones that are out for murder or bust can only be put down with conflict. What we have to do is to be harsh with all terrorists and terrorist wannabes on our own soil, but when we take the battle to their turf we need to root out and destroy the worst of them, the ones that are already established and carrying out acts of terror, while leaving the fence-sitters that could go either way alone so that we don't set them off. And while we are there, lend some aid so that we have support from locals, and that in turn should make some of those aforementioned fence-sitters at least sit back and mumble profanities at us instead of taking up their guns and shooting us.
In response to Loduwijk
<font color="blue">Loduwijk wrote:
Jp wrote:
and the US isn't the only (Well, a, either) bastion of freedom in the world. I think I'd prefer to live in Sweden then the US.

That's a nasty, low blow. While I live in the US and I know that some of my freedoms are being trampled on, suggesting that there are free countries in the world but that the US isn't one of them and in fact is less desirable than others is silly. I dislike a lot of the nonsense going on in the country I live in, but I wouldn't say that the US is outside this bastion of freedom you speak of while Sweden is.</font>


i think the term 'bastion' is being mis-understood or mis-used here. bastion is a fortification, or well fortified position. or you could say of someone who is considered similar to a defensive stronghold: 'You are a bastion of strength.'

i think that the U.S. is drifting outside this view, and has been doing so for quite some time.

having lived in the U.S longer than most of the posters in this thread have even been alive, and currently living in Europe, i find myself far more 'free' over here than in the country of my birth. for example, i don't have people whining in my face about 'he said/she said and i'm right/you're wrong' nonsense - either socially or politically or religiously - because people are generally more respectful about your right to your opinion and free-speech. common sense seems to be a bit more available here too. these are freedoms that often get lost in the U.S.

and instead of relying on an opinion, you can rely on my personal experience - Sweden certainly feels/appears/smells more free in many aspects than the U.S. - heck many parts of Europe could fall under that statement as well.

i agree with Jp - i believe the U.S. is no longer the bastion of freedom that it claims to be.
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