ID:183093
 Oct 24 2007, 1:13 pm
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Well not only is he a bad public speaker, but he is not a good person either. You can tell by his character. Although this is a sterotype, he is from Texas. Racism flurishes in the deep south. And as you know Katrina didnt get the help it desperatly needed. Most of the population was black. If that happend in New York you could bet your ass Bush would be on that in a second.
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Gughunter wrote:
I certainly won't try to argue that President Bush is one of our most articulate presidents. But I would argue that being articulate, though certainly a useful trait in itself, is only sometimes a useful indicator of a person's intelligence, and far less often a useful indicator of a person's character. At the risk of triggering Godwin's Law, I'll mention that one of the most charismatic and compelling orators of the 20th Century was Adolf Hitler. When I'm speaking to strangers, I'm very articulate... most of the time. Sometimes, if I get a little excited/anxious/nervous, my articulation goes out the door and my brain starts calling after it. I remember one time when I was working, I asked a customer how I could help him; he mentioned what he was looking for, so I described the product in detail and described some alternatives... ultimately I got to the point where I very nearly said "blehbleh" instead of "fishing"... I grinned and said, "Can I start over?" Ironically, when I did little mistakes like that, I noticed it tended to build a rapport with my customers -- it wasn't so much the fact that I was some young guy who should be making mistakes, but it made me seem like less of a faceless enemy as part of a uni-national corporation and more of a person who was looking out for their best interests. I suppose it depends on who's watching. I personally think Bush is a moron and I know full well that at least a few of my former co-workers also thought of me as a moron; they're obviously wrong about me, so it's possible that I'm wrong about Bush. Nevertheless, I'm not anywhere near that inarticulate, and I've never said something as iconically stupid as "wings take dream"... ;-) | |
Knifo wrote:
And as you know Katrina didnt get the help it desperatly needed. Most of the population was black. Ok. Let's say George Bush is actually mentally disabled. He has real no joke brain damage. Do you think he would be dumb enough to purposely deny aid to citizens of his own country on the basis that he 'just doesn't like black people'? No one working for him would stand up and point out that the best case scenario is that his administration looks stupid or evil. | |
Knifo wrote:
Well not only is he a bad public speaker, but he is not a good person either. You can tell by his character. Although this is a sterotype, he is from Texas. Racism flurishes in the deep south. ... | |
I will leave discussions about Bush's competence to others for now- for my part, I believe history will not be kind.
Gughunter: I think you overrate Hitler's charisma. Hitler was largely the result of forces behind him conspiring to militarize post WW2 Germany. He was a forceful speaker, but not a particularly good speechwriter. Goebbels was the propagandist- further Goebbels talked up Hitler's abilities in writings such as "Der Führer als Redner," Adolf Hitler. Bilder aus dem Leben des Führers. Indeed, cunning use of themes by Goebbels that resonated with the German psyche and effective organization by the SS/SA and subsequent brutal repression of dissent had far more more to do with the success of the Nazi regime than Hitler's charisma. He was more a product of the times than anything else, I believe. His subsequent military, strategic, industrial, diplomatic, and logistical ineptitude demonstrates his inability as a leader. (Compare to Stalin who was a much more successful murderous dictator.) Interestingly, Bush's grandfather got into some trouble for his financing of Nazi operations. Funny how things are linked, eh? | |
His subsequent military, strategic, industrial, diplomatic, and logistical ineptitude demonstrates his inability as a leader. A poor leader, yes. Also, responsible for the murder of millions of civilians and the death or maiming of millions more soldiers. But that does not disprove his charisma, which I think this YouTube video adequately demonstrates: http://youtube.com/watch?v=Jmra3gHo4N0 And to drive the final nail in the coffin of your objection, I cite no less an authority than E. Gary Gygax: Many persons have the sad misconception that charisma is merely physical attractiveness. This error is obvious to any person who considers the subject with perceptiveness. Charisma is a combination of physical appearance, persuasiveness, and personal magnetism. True charisma becomes evident when one considers such historic examples of Julius Caesar, Napoleon Bonaparte, and Adolf Hitler. Obviously, these individuals did not have an 18 score on physical beauty... - First edition Dungeon Master's Guide, page 15, second column, eighth paragraph (via http://www.theescapist.com) QED. | |
I as well live in TN, Memphis to be exact, and racism isn't that big of a deal here. At least not that I have seen. Sure, "optional segregation" is seen, but most people have no problem with being around people of other races, and in any one clique you are liable to see at least one person from each racial group: asian, hispanic, white, black, and a heck of a lot of mixed.
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Gughunter wrote:
First edition Dungeon Master's Guide, page 15, second column, eighth paragraph (via http://www.theescapist.com) I have a hard copy of the 1st Ed DMG, if anyone would like me to do readings. (I half expect Jack Chick to pop in and start throwing holy water at me.) | |
Jamesburrow wrote:
I as well live in TN, Memphis to be exact, and racism isn't that big of a deal here. At least not that I have seen. Sure, "optional segregation" is seen, but most people have no problem with being around people of other races, and in any one clique you are liable to see at least one person from each racial group: asian, hispanic, white, black, and a heck of a lot of mixed. Racism towards Asians, Hispanics, etc. are long gone. It's just black and white now. | |
You're kidding, right? The major racism is towards Hispanics, and even that is rather toned down lately.
Here at least, it's not so much about race but rather the neighborhood you live in. Sure, racism does play a factor, but not that big of one. I'm not going to deny race isn't a big thing in some places (heck, look at that place, erm, Jenna, I think it's called), but you can't lay that stereotype at the South. Racism exists in the North as well, heck, I'd almost be willing to say at times more-so than here in the south. | |
Cavern wrote:
Jamesburrow wrote: Maybe Hispanic racism is gone in the more northern parts of the states, but in Texas I still hear a lot of it. I probably hear people refer to them as "wetbacks" as often as I do "mexican", and almost never "hispanic". | |
Cavern wrote:
Racism towards Asians, Hispanics, etc. are long gone. It's just black and white now. Don't be ridiculous. You can still see examples of all kinds of racism/discrimination from coast to coast in Canada, and given that we're a much-more-hugely liberal country than the United States I imagine it's at least as bad down there. Racist fighting is very rare because people are very polite these days, but it's still around. In Canada, in general, in terms of instigation versus receipt (though obviously those on the receiving end reciprocate to stand up for themselves), I see: Neo-Nazis versus Sikhs and Jews; Caucasians versus Asians, Natives, and Blacks; Indians versus Asians (gang-related, usually); and Christians versus Muslims. Then there's the whole Anglo-Franco divide in the East, too, which you guys have with the whole Anglo-Hispanic divide in the Southwest. However, regarding what launched this discussion, accusing Bush of being racist is completely groundless. He hasn't done or said a single racist thing that I've ever heard of. Accusing him of being racist because he's from Texas is itself unfair discrimination and reflects badly on the person who makes that assumption. | |
Jmurph wrote:
I will leave discussions about Bush's competence to others for now- for my part, I believe history will not be kind. Why does every thread on these forums eventually turn into a conversation about Hitler? | |
Ben G wrote:
Why does every thread on these forums eventually turn into a conversation about Hitler? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin%27s_Law explains most of it, although this particular case is just honest discussion. | |
I certainly won't try to argue that President Bush is one of our most articulate presidents. But I would argue that being articulate, though certainly a useful trait in itself, is only sometimes a useful indicator of a person's intelligence, and far less often a useful indicator of a person's character. At the risk of triggering Godwin's Law, I'll mention that one of the most charismatic and compelling orators of the 20th Century was Adolf Hitler.
Speaking in public, and especially to large groups of people, is a situation to which few of us are accustomed. (In my own case, the most talking I've done in the past few years is to my buddy who comes over on Saturdays once or twice a month to play video games and throw back a few beers -- I call him a mackerel-snapper, then he calls me a snake-handler, and we both consider it a valuable interfaith discussion.) I'm far less concerned about what George W. Bush says than what he does, and I expect that he has a similar attitude, because his choices will be discussed by historians long after the arguments of his contemporary critics and fanboys alike are forgotten.