Does byond even advertise its existance?

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May 16 2008, 6:29 pm
In response to Tiberath
Tiberath wrote:
Nick231 wrote:
There lies the problem. People will generally go to "Help" if they can't register, aren't getting email verification, the software won't install, etc. Something like "Tutorials" Is not something people will look under "Help" for, when theres a "Developers" Category left of it.

You're mistaken. We've had a small few requests for tutorial links and whatnot.

The fact that some needed to ask shows it could use to be a little more visible. Don't forget to take into consideration how many may not have bothered to post a question for something that should be easily available.
May 16 2008, 6:31 pm
In response to Nick231
Nick231 wrote:
Tiberath wrote:
Nick231 wrote:
There lies the problem. People will generally go to "Help" if they can't register, aren't getting email verification, the software won't install, etc. Something like "Tutorials" Is not something people will look under "Help" for, when theres a "Developers" Category left of it.

You're mistaken. We've had a small few requests for tutorial links and whatnot.

The fact that some needed to ask shows it could use to be a little more visible. Don't forget to take into consideration how many may not have bothered to post a question for something that should be easily available.

I don't see how it's so hard to find. Developers menu contains direct links to the reference and guide. Dream Makers guild has links to resources directly in view when you load the page.

You can even search for resources directly from any page you visit.
May 16 2008, 6:42 pm
In response to Tom
Tom wrote:
But until we get a real hit outside of Anime...

Got it. I'm on it.
May 16 2008, 7:01 pm
In response to Tiberath
Tiberath wrote:
I don't see how it's so hard to find. Developers menu contains direct links to the reference and guide. Dream Makers guild has links to resources directly in view when you load the page.

"Dream Makers" Isn't exactly the most intuitive place to look for tutorials for a new person, since they have absolutely no idea what the heck it is. My earlier point also applies here, the deeper a user has to click through a site to find something they're looking for, the less likely they'll be around long enough to find it. It's not easy to find, and theres no reason it shouldn't be.

You can even search for resources directly from any page you visit.

Searching for tutorials under resources doesn't exactly bring up much helpful stuff.
May 16 2008, 7:03 pm
In response to Nick231
Nick231 wrote:
You can even search for resources directly from any page you visit.

Searching for tutorials under resources doesn't exactly bring up much helpful stuff.

The first result is "My First World". I don't think it can get any clearer than that.
May 16 2008, 7:07 pm
In response to Tiberath
Tiberath wrote:
Nick231 wrote:
You can even search for resources directly from any page you visit.

Searching for tutorials under resources doesn't exactly bring up much helpful stuff.

The first result is "My First World". I don't think it can get any clearer than that.

Have you actually looked at that particular "My First World"?
May 16 2008, 7:08 pm
In response to Nick231
I'm not game enough. Knowing the fact I've never heard of the developer, I can only imagine it's going to be crap.

One idea, instead of restructuring the site, would be to include all resources made from trusted developers, up the top of a resource search, and plant the rest down below.
May 16 2008, 7:26 pm
In response to Tiberath
Tiberath wrote:
I'm not game enough. Knowing the fact I've never heard of the developer, I can only imagine it's going to be crap.

It's quite bad. An experienced programmer might be able to make something of it, but even thats pushing it.

One idea, instead of restructuring the site, would be to include all resources made from trusted developers, up the top of a resource search, and plant the rest down below.

That could be good. A link under Developers wouldn't hurt either, a sub-menu off of something like "DM Resources", just named differently since DM Resources is actually it's own category.
May 17 2008, 12:47 am
In response to Tom
I'd post links to the topics, but they were posted a while ago, the forums are large and lack a search feature, and I don't fancy wasting hours looking for the topic.

But in general if the post wasn't ignored in favour of something else that appeared more impressive than BYOND then the responses I did get were usually one of the following.
1. BYOND doesn't have anything impressive to show off. It has no large, well known games (or even any known games) outside of the BYOND community, or the games don't seem impressive either visually or in terms of what they offer.
The community is producing a lot of excellent quality games.
Whether the are beautiful looking screenshots http://nekosoft.org/images/stories/heavenly/ hv_forest_jour.png
Awesome gameplay videos http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LtxOWt4rRZE&feature=user
Or just plain excellent games/demos http://digg.com/pc_games/ Barkley_Shut_Up_and_Jam_Gaiden_AMAZING_FREE_GAME
BYOND just doesn't have anything as impressive as this to show off, and because of this it is not really attracting much attention (in short, BYOND doesn't, or can't make good games).
2. The BYOND community is in general not that useful or worth getting involved with. Unless they want technical help the BYOND community doesn't offer any of what they want, or that is how it appears (parts, large parts of the community also seem... Unfriendly to them). These people want places to talk about their games and show them off, to get criticism and so on. A quick look at the BYOND community by these people makes it appear a not nice place that doesn't offer what they want.
3. The final problem I have heard is that a BYOND game has to be attached to BYOND. These people want to make stand alone games (to the point that a game MUST require everything needed to play it in the download, which for a BYOND game means BYOND).

Those are the main reasons I have seen or heard people say that stop the, from using BYOND.

Though, I have suggested a rather large amateur game development website include it's own BYOND section in it's newest version (they are making sections for different programs, BYOND will most likely be one of those). What good that will do though remains to be seen.
May 17 2008, 2:00 am
In response to Tiberath
Tiberath wrote:
One idea, instead of restructuring the site, would be to include all resources made from trusted developers, up the top of a resource search, and plant the rest down below.

There's a category for that ('approved/good resources') with its own search, which is better. About the accessibility... I'll let you guys discuss if it's good that it's under Site -> View Resources rather than under Developers (although it is also available from Dream Makers).

EDIT: The search actually only searches through Dream Makers articles, not resources... so that's another thing to improve.
May 17 2008, 3:19 am
In response to Kaioken
Kaioken wrote:
EDIT: The search actually only searches through Dream Makers articles, not resources... so that's another thing to improve.

http://www.byond.com/members/ DreamMakers?command=search&text=Tutorial&type=resources

Don't look like articles to me.
May 17 2008, 4:13 am
In response to The Magic Man
The Magic Man wrote:
3. The final problem I have heard is that a BYOND game has to be attached to BYOND. These people want to make stand alone games (to the point that a game MUST require everything needed to play it in the download, which for a BYOND game means BYOND)

Start bugging the BYOND staff about it!
May 17 2008, 6:32 am
In response to The Magic Man
The Magic Man wrote:
1. BYOND doesn't have anything impressive to show off. It has no large, well known games (or even any known games) outside of the BYOND community, or the games don't seem impressive either visually or in terms of what they offer.

Perhaps it would be better to address the question of what stops people from building impressive games?
May 17 2008, 7:31 am
In response to Foomer
Foomer wrote:
The Magic Man wrote:
1. BYOND doesn't have anything impressive to show off. It has no large, well known games (or even any known games) outside of the BYOND community, or the games don't seem impressive either visually or in terms of what they offer.

Perhaps it would be better to address the question of what stops people from building impressive games?

Lack of motivation, Lack of resources, Laziness, lack of imagination, noobiness, and wanting game making to be an easy task.

- Miran94

May 17 2008, 7:39 am
In response to Foomer
It is kind of... No one around wants to (or will) make games like that, but without those games it is hard to attract the sort of people who would make those games. And then it becomes a circle, no people no games, no games no people and so on.

Not much can be done about that until someone makes a game that will get BYOND some recognition, but if and when that happens... Who knows?
May 17 2008, 8:36 am
In response to The Magic Man
I thought it was just the part where every time you come up with a cool idea, BYOND magically comes up with a reason why your cool idea won't work.
May 17 2008, 9:25 am
In response to Foomer
Nah, that is the BYOND community (and it usually comes with some sort of "you suck too much" or "ou'll never be good enough" insult).
May 17 2008, 9:56 am
In response to Tiberath
Which is why, of course, I was referring to the search on the approved resources page, of which I spoke of in my post, and not to the search you've linked to, obviously. =)
May 17 2008, 1:08 pm
In response to Nick231
Nick231 wrote:
The old site Everything you could possibly need was at your fingertips on the sidebar. The developers site was similar, just instead of the games list there was the demo/library/etc. links. The Top bar is fine, theres nothing wrong with it. The problem is with the site itself and how it's layed out and organized.

Reading that made me miss the old site a lot :/
May 17 2008, 1:10 pm
In response to Hazman
Like, a Nintendo Power magazine for BYOND Games? :o
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