BYOND Feature Wishlist

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ID:1789291
 
Feb 18 2015, 7:22 pm
Hello BYOND! I decided to make a forum post today.

This time I wanted to talk about some of the features I have personally wanted BYOND to have over the few years I have been around.

This list is also put together with BYOND as a whole in mind - the engine, the website and the pager. I am also not considering it's actual feasibility to much- just a heads up.

I encourage you to post your own wishlists, as I am honestly curious what other things people have been wishing for.

So here goes, my personal wish list:

#1Built-In Map Edging


This can already be created through soft-code, but it is very slow in comparison to what it could be if it was built-in. As a developer it saves time and means quality and productivity. As a player it means more games will have better graphics and tilesets as it easier to add and support. Considering that most of the games on BYOND are top down RPG's I am actually kinda surprised this was never added.

#2Community Driven Ratings

As far as anything on the website is concerned, nothing would thrill me more than allowing players to rate the games they play. Newgrounds does this and it works - its pretty awesome. It would give players an idea of what to expect and would give developers some feedback on how well they are doing.

#3Code Completion

OK, OK - I admit it - ....I have been spoiled by modern IDE's...that being said..I CAN STILL HOPE! This appeals mostly to my developer side as it would mean faster production, less memory usage(from my brain) and less work(from my fingers). You might be thinking that this will never happen for BYOND and it may not..but there is still hope!(at least a tiny bit ;p) there is an IDE that could change all of this if it ever get's rolling : BYONDclipse.

#4 Custom Loading Screens

You know what happens whenever you download or launch a new game on BYOND - it gives you that same old loading screen you've already seen for the millionth time. The ability to customize the loading bar or hell even just a background image would go a long way to making the launch screen alot less boring and more presentable. Since we're pushing the in-game ads thing this could be a nice benefit for BYOND members as well as they would get a taste of the graphics before digging into the game..

#5Dream Maker Facelift

In 2013 the pager got a much needed facelift and it left players and developers with a smile on their faces. We had finally ditched that old 2000's looking interface and went with a more modern look - it was one of the best days to be a BYOND user. Developers were secretly wishing and hoping the same thing would happen to the dream maker but it never did - developers are still stuck with that old interface - it's functional but deep inside I think we all wish we had a better paint job.

_______________________
Anyway that's pretty much it for me(that I can recall atm anyway)

So do you have any wish-features you have secretly been hoping for? I am really kinda curious what you guys have wanted BYOND to have over the years.

Anyway, thanks for reading my little post. =3
Feb 18 2015, 7:55 pm
Built-in auto-tiling would be nice, yeah, but it would be difficult to implement in a way that would work universally without being so complex that nobody could easily make use of it. The soft-coded systems are generally done to follow a specific (and usually moderately complex) format or on a per-game basis. Lummox has wanted this as well, but has yet to really find an ideal solution to providing it as a standard feature.

The community-driven ratings thing was tried once, but it was heavily abused and it became apparent that it was trivial for someone to generate false positives and negatives in the system if they had a large enough group of trolls to help them. It ended up being a big waste of time and effort.

Code completion and IDE update stuff doesn't really need to be up to BYOND, focus on the IDE just takes time away from working on other things. The IDE is perfectly functional for what it does and has been updated to support larger projects and whatnot, which were really the only short-comings of the pre-threaded IDE. There's been community efforts at making IDE's and implementing DM specifics into existing ones (Eclipse) but you mentioned that in your post, so you're aware of it. That's probably the best bet for a more modern IDE.

Custom loading screens would be pretty tricky to implement with Dream Seeker because there's no way for the client to access the resources needed to display a custom loader before downloading the game resources, it was discussed loading it from a website or something but it proved to be more complicated than it was worth. HOWEVER, the web-client opens up some possibilities on this front, and the developers have state their intention of improving the loader for the web-client at some point -- the web-client will most likely obsolete existing Dream Seeker at some point as it'll have more robust support for modern functions.
Feb 18 2015, 8:04 pm
I think BYOND isn't as easy as advertised. If the IDE spat out red/yellow zigzag underlines on specific bits of incorrect code with detailed warnings, for example, people might actually figure out what they're doing wrong. If implemented properly, this would ideally break certain sources, making them unable to be compiled until somebody cleans them up. New people especially would immediately see their mistakes and prevent bad habits. It's a win-win.
Feb 18 2015, 9:23 pm
In response to Nadrew
Nadrew wrote:
Built-in auto-tiling would be nice, yeah, but it would be difficult to implement in a way that would work universally without being so complex that nobody could easily make use of it. The soft-coded systems are generally done to follow a specific (and usually moderately complex) format or on a per-game basis. Lummox has wanted this as well, but has yet to really find an ideal solution to providing it as a standard feature.

I am not sure what challenges run-time edge generation presents..but generally anything like how rpg maker does this would work.

If it's the overall setup on how it would be handed off to the developer I can present my own in-house setup as a template?

you only have to set one thing to create simple 4 piece edging - if you want a more complex setup(8 pieces) it requires 4 settings but that's still pretty decent in terms of complexity.

turf
    var
//this is an icon state that holds the name of your edge state - SETTING THIS ALONE WILL GENERATE 4 DIR EDGES
        edge_state=""


//Allows you to specify corner pieces if you go with 8 dir edging.(icon_state)
        edge_corner_state="" 
//defines how edge should look if it surrounds a specific tile.(icon_state) 
        edge_all_state=""
//if you have corners you can tell it to use them by setting this to true. but this requires all of the above to be set for proper results
        edge_corners=FALSE
//completely optional grouping - it allows multiple turfs to not create edging on one another by "grouping" them. for example "Grasses"
        edge_group=null
//if you only want specific directions to be edged just disable the ones you don' want...
        edge_north=TRUE
        edge_south=TRUE
        edge_east=TRUE
        edge_west=TRUE


If Tom or Lummox ever decides to add this I don't think the goal should be to create a universal system that's going to work for EVERY SINGLE GAME but instead something that caters to the majority of BYOND's games (Top-Down RPG's) and makes it much easier to create good looking games quickly - one of BYOND's best selling points.
Feb 19 2015, 12:59 am
I 1+ 4,3,2 and 1
BYOND SHOULD HAVE IDEA #2 , it will help developers so much
Feb 19 2015, 7:11 am
In response to Kaiochao
Kaiochao wrote:
I think BYOND isn't as easy as advertised. If the IDE spat out red/yellow zigzag underlines on specific bits of incorrect code with detailed warnings, for example, people might actually figure out what they're doing wrong. If implemented properly, this would ideally break certain sources, making them unable to be compiled until somebody cleans them up. New people especially would immediately see their mistakes and prevent bad habits. It's a win-win.


It definitely isn't. I struggle with many things, but this is the most I've been involved with a programming language so I'll just credit my hard time with lack of experience.

On a side note, you guys know about code academy? Would it be possible to make a website that does the same, but for DM? Interactive lessons like that would probably be a big help since many things in DM are vague.
Feb 19 2015, 8:03 am
In response to Gtgoku55
It would be up to whomever wants to put the effort in.
Feb 19 2015, 1:04 pm
In response to Gtgoku55
On a side note, you guys know about code academy? Would it be possible to make a website that does the same, but for DM? Interactive lessons like that would probably be a big help since many things in DM are vague.


I doubt that's ever going to happen, you can always wish for it though ;p (thats what I do)

A lot of the tutorials are kinda outdated and don't teach the script very well. We should probably start a community effort to revamp our tutorials and provide a higher grade of education to newcomers.
Feb 19 2015, 8:17 pm
better map making tools you got my vote.
Feb 19 2015, 8:24 pm
Too bad none of this is going to get implemented.


It never does.
Feb 19 2015, 9:48 pm
In response to King_LiOnZ
King_LiOnZ wrote:
Too bad none of this is going to get implemented.


It never does.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=80YFtnTBApU

But really, the built-in auto-tiling would save resources in games and make things muuuch easier for developers with larger maps. If anything is taken from this thread by Tom or Lummox I hope it's that. In regards to the IDE I'm going to have to agree with Nadrew, there's been alternate IDE's created that provide a more modern-style interface if that's really what's bothering you. While I do have to admit code completing would provide developers who aren't as familiar with the language insight on functions they have yet to discover and maybe teach some of them how to successfully achieve whatever they're trying to do in the most efficient way possible.
Feb 20 2015, 4:55 am
I actually don't see how auto-tiling isn't already built in BYOND. All other game engines pretty much have it right? I'm sure this is something that can actually help BYOND better so it shouldn't be pushed off but push forward.
Feb 20 2015, 11:55 am
In response to Ganite
Ganite wrote:
I actually don't see how auto-tiling isn't already built in BYOND. All other game engines pretty much have it right? I'm sure this is something that can actually help BYOND better so it shouldn't be pushed off but push forward.

Yeah, I was kinda surprised it was never added.

Southend_boi wrote:
better map making tools you got my vote.

lol

King_LiOnZ wrote:
Too bad none of this is going to get implemented.


It never does.

That's not necessarily true. Some of this could definitely be made - even with BYOND's limited resources. The tricky part is convincing the decision makers (Tom/Lummox) that it is valuable and worth using those limited resources on.

Some of this - like code completion - would only be done by 3rd parties/not at all because it's mainly a sugar feature - sweet but not necessary.

Shadow Serpent wrote:
But really, the built-in auto-tiling would save resources in games and make things muuuch easier for developers with larger maps. If anything is taken from this thread by Tom or Lummox I hope it's that.

Amen.

In regards to the IDE I'm going to have to agree with Nadrew, there's been alternate IDE's created that provide a more modern-style interface if that's really what's bothering you.

I have only seen that one - and it is incomplete(BYONDclipse) ;(

(I believe only coding is in and it isn't completely in either..)

While I do have to admit code completing would provide developers who aren't as familiar with the language insight on functions they have yet to discover and maybe teach some of them how to successfully achieve whatever they're trying to do in the most efficient way possible.

It would certainly be nice - this feature is more of a wish I have than something I think would ever happen or need to happen. hence "Wishlist" lol
Feb 20 2015, 2:11 pm
In response to IchiroKeisuke
Yes, it COULD be implemented and SHOULD be implemented.


But it's not going to get implemented.
Feb 20 2015, 2:16 pm
In response to King_LiOnZ
King_LiOnZ wrote:
Yes, it COULD be implemented and SHOULD be implemented.


But it's not going to get implemented.

I don't understand they act like this is one of those little things we ask about when its really something big and will make BYOND better. I don't see why its ignored.
Feb 23 2015, 6:47 am
Built-in autotiling for the map sure would be nice, but it'd be very limited. Like Nadrew said it's a complex issue. Bear in mind, there is no such thing as a standard definition as to which kind of tiling to use. Pmikell's classic "clock" of bitflags going from 1=north, 2=northeast, 4=east, and so on is the format I've always followed, but there are icons predating it (or from around that same time anyway) that use a different set of flags entirely. Is the desired joining 47-state, 16-state, or the limited but still often useful Foomerian 13 or neo-Foomerian 15? This is to say nothing of esoteric join types like 82, 161, and 256.

Custom load screens has been on my list for a long time, but I've never come up with a good way to implement it. The core problem: A user starts connecting to DS before they have all the resources or even know what game it is. The game would have to send them something that would alter the load screen before going ahead with the main resource download. As with many things, this is far easier to achieve in the webclient and is fairly high on my list for webclient features.
Feb 23 2015, 10:30 am
Fuck DS anyway Lummy. Get us summadat sexy custom loadscreen action in the webclient. That and custom font support for maptext would make my pants tight.
Feb 24 2015, 3:12 am
In response to Unwanted4Murder
Unwanted4Murder wrote:
Fuck DS anyway Lummy. Get us summadat sexy custom loadscreen action in the webclient. That and custom font support for maptext would make my pants tight.

I second this. For years I have been waiting for a custom loading screen. It gives off a sense of professionalism and allows us to market/present ourselves better.

And the maptext... my gosh. That could use some work. It is far behind with today's standards. I know BYOND focuses on old 2D games. But, it doesn't mean it can't look polished. Things should look beautiful from the get-go and turn ugly with the developer's mistakes. The webclient looks far more sexier with maptext than DS does. And DS has been out much much longer. I think some things need to be changed here. That, and just how small text can get. It should be able to get smaller. ;) Flexibility is key, in my opinion.

--

An idea for the load screen, change up what loads first. Much like you've already so easily done with the webclient (that is, the server converts the interface to dart code), allow the server to send a link(), or something similar to preload_rsc (a variable called world.load_screen that features the link to the art). This data will then be loaded and replaced with the BYOND screen. The BYOND screen takes over the image if the image request timesout or if there is a failed connection to the game. Need a flowchart or something? I can do it. "Anything" to get some of these polishing features finally in. I'll even give you a back massage to get you to put in overtime.
Feb 24 2015, 7:33 am
I still don't like all the focus on the web client, when DS needs so much done to it.
Feb 24 2015, 7:50 am
In response to NNAAAAHH
NNAAAAHH wrote:
I still don't like all the focus on the web client, when DS needs so much done to it.

I believe everything mentioned applies to DS as well.

Built-In Map Edging is for DM but pretty much DS utilizes this.

Community Driven Ratings is for the website but pretty much promotes DS games as well as Webclient games.

Code Completion helps make DS and webclient games more stable in terms of proper programming practices.

Custom Loading Screens allows users to customize the splash screen on DS loading.

Dream Maker Facelift... I don't know how to bullshit this one. So, just count this one out.

Maptext applies to both webclient and DS. Because it looks atrocious in DS but astoundingly beautiful in webclient for some odd reason.
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