Lets just get a few things straightened out regarding DBZ, Zeta, and everything else on BYOND.
First of all, what is the purpose of BYOND? Is it not to make it possible for people without a ton of programming experience to build the games they want, especially games that function online? If that's the case, why are you trying to prevent people from building what they want just because you don't like the theme, or the code that they're using to build their game?
It appears that Dantom's biggest mistake has been to provide people with a hub. That's sad, because the hub makes it so much easier for gamers to find the games they want, and for the designers to find their players. If you couldn't see all the DBZ games, would you still complain about them? No, I don't think you would. Maybe Dantom should get rid of the hub and let you all worry about getting your own players, then you'd stop complaining.
Just face the fact. BYOND is here to let people build what they want to build. If you don't like what they're building, you don't have to help them out. But there certainly is no excuse to be rude to them over it. They're building what they like, just as you are. Some people like original games, some people like games based on their favorite themes.
It seems like you're looking at someone who uses Zeta source code as some kind of malicious thief who is intent on making life worse for everyone. They're not. Zeta is out in the open now, and it's practically public code. It wasn't intended to be, but it is now. If people find it to be an easy way to build what they enjoy, then let them build it, and stop giving everyone a hard time.
If you can't handle it, you'd better setup your own community. BYOND forums are for everyone, not just the people who build the kind of games *you* like.
ID:176817
 Dec 6 2002, 4:04 pm
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They are a thief, and they are clogging the hub. If people expect making a game to be easy, they should stick to RPGMaker. Again, the key is that they aren't building anything. What the heck do you think BYOND is here for? To make building it harder? Making a game SHOULD be as easy as possible. No one wants it to be harder. If what you want is already built and publicly available to use, why the heck shouldn't you use it? "They're clogging the hub" is the same bloody excuse everyone uses. Get over it. If you can't stand seeing games you don't like on the hub, you shouldn't be using it yourself. If I took the Mona Lisa and wrote my name at the bottom of it, it's not my work. All I did was write my name on it, but the rest of it isn't my work. These people take other's code, make themself a GM, sell GM status to other people, and call it thier game. I don't mind the fact that they clog the hub; what really bothers me is how wrong what they do is. It kills me that DM is so simple, but people have to steal code from someone else to make a game. And give me a reason why you should care what other people do with THEIR games? You think the people who play their games can't tell whether the code is original or not? Whether they build them from scratch or not, it doesn't make a darn difference to you. If you don't like it, don't play it. Stop complaining. If the person who's code they're using has a problem with it, let him deal with it. It's not your problem, nor your right to tell them that they can't and shouldn't be using it. | |
Triste wrote:
What the heck do you think BYOND is here for? To make building it harder? No, try making an online game without BYOND, then you will see how much easier BYOND makes it. Making a game SHOULD be as easy as possible. No one wants it to be harder. If what you want is already built and publicly available to use, why the heck shouldn't you use it? "They're clogging the hub" is the same bloody excuse everyone uses. Get over it. If you can't stand seeing games you don't like on the hub, you shouldn't be using it yourself. DM is the easiest language I have ever used. It took a whole week to learn it enough to make a game. DM is made for making online games. If you think DM is too hard, then you shouldn't be allowed to use a computer. If you think it's ok to use someone else's code (without thier permission) then you sould be shot several times. http://www.byond.com/start/start.html Nowhere does it say that BYOND is for steling other people's code and calling it 'your game'. If you think that is what BYOND is for, then refer to the above paragraph. | |
uh huh, good speech, but it doesnt quite answer my question. :)
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First of all, what is the purpose of BYOND? Is it not to make it possible for people without a ton of programming experience to build the games they want, especially games that function online? If that's the case, why are you trying to prevent people from building what they want just because you don't like the theme, or the code that they're using to build their game? Straight from the Start Page "What is BYOND? Build Your Own Net Dream. Such a statement can be thought of as ambiguous, ambitious, even arrogant. And it is our intention for it to be all of these, and more. BYOND is a system designed to take the Internet to the next level, byond the static interaction of the web, byond the uninspiring practicality of email. In a nutshell, it is a state-of-the-art platform for forging, publishing, and playing multi-user, multi-media, networked games. Some of the biggest freelance hits of tomorrow are being developed and tested right now in the growing reaches of BYOND space. " There's nothing in there about being easy. Being easy is just a side effect from how well written the language was. By not helping people you aren't preventing them from doing anything. If a person wants to lie, steal, or do any malicious act they're not going to find many people to help them or any school to teach them. So if they want to do things that are morally or legally wrong they're going to have to learn themselves. It appears that Dantom's biggest mistake has been to provide people with a hub. That's sad, because the hub makes it so much easier for gamers to find the games they want, and for the designers to find their players. If you couldn't see all the DBZ games, would you still complain about them? No, I don't think you would. Maybe Dantom should get rid of the hub and let you all worry about getting your own players, then you'd stop complaining. I don't see how the hub is a mistake. People(well some are) aren't complaining because they are taking up viewing space. But they could be potentially illegal which could lead to legal trouble for Dan and Tom. Just face the fact. BYOND is here to let people build what they want to build. If you don't like what they're building, you don't have to help them out. But there certainly is no excuse to be rude to them over it. They're building what they like, just as you are. Some people like original games, some people like games based on their favorite themes. Yeah they are welcome to build what they want to build, but when they're putting up stuff that could be illegal on a public place it could lead to legal troubles. And when what you're building off of is stolen material it gets worse. It seems like you're looking at someone who uses Zeta source code as some kind of malicious thief who is intent on making life worse for everyone. They're not. Zeta is out in the open now, and it's practically public code. It wasn't intended to be, but it is now. If people find it to be an easy way to build what they enjoy, then let them build it, and stop giving everyone a hard time. Well they're a malicious theif out for self betterment not neccesarily to make everyone else worse off. Just because someone stole the source to Zeta doesn't make it ok for eveyone to use it. If I stole a TV and gave it to you as a gift does that make it legally yours? If you can't handle it, you'd better setup your own community. BYOND forums are for everyone, not just the people who build the kind of games *you* like. Yep BYOND is for everyone even those people who like to point out that stealing isn't ok to do. | |
Triste wrote:
It appears that Dantom's biggest mistake has been to provide people with a hub. That's sad, because the hub makes it so much easier for gamers to find the games they want, and for the designers to find their players. If you couldn't see all the DBZ games, would you still complain about them? No, I don't think you would. Maybe Dantom should get rid of the hub and let you all worry about getting your own players, then you'd stop complaining. Actually the addition of BYOND.Raw has relegated most of those games to the sidelines. There's not nearly as much need to complain about the preponderance of DBZ games now. Of course, that doesn't stop the forums from being clogged with people making DBZ games. Just face the fact. BYOND is here to let people build what they want to build. If you don't like what they're building, you don't have to help them out. But there certainly is no excuse to be rude to them over it. They're building what they like, just as you are. Some people like original games, some people like games based on their favorite themes. Granted. It's in everyone's interest to curb rudeness. It seems like you're looking at someone who uses Zeta source code as some kind of malicious thief who is intent on making life worse for everyone. They're not. Zeta is out in the open now, and it's practically public code. It wasn't intended to be, but it is now. If people find it to be an easy way to build what they enjoy, then let them build it, and stop giving everyone a hard time. Here we part ways. Zeta is not public code and should never be treated as such; it still belongs wholly to he who wrote it. I don't have a problem with someone studying that code if they intend to create their own original game, nor do I hold the abuse of this code against anyone when they make a separate project and want help on that. But they have no right to go modifying the code willy-nilly as if it's their own and expect to get help on that. No. The line is drawn there. Lummox JR | |
Theodis wrote:
First of all, what is the purpose of BYOND? Is it not to make it possible for people without a ton of programming experience to build the games they want, especially games that function online? If that's the case, why are you trying to prevent people from building what they want just because you don't like the theme, or the code that they're using to build their game? Refer to Lummox JR's post, you dont seem to get it | |
Refer to Lummox JR's post, you dont seem to get it No I don't get it. I don't even know what it is. If you were more specific as to what it is I might have been able to give a reasonable responce. | |
RainZero wrote:
Refer to Lummox JR's post, you dont seem to get it Actually what Theodis said is in line with my opinion too. He's saying stealing isn't okay. Lummox JR | |
Lummox JR wrote:
RainZero wrote: Theodis took the 'it's illegal' approach to it, but you are both speaking along the same lines, not to mention both correct. I tend to think someone else here doesn't 'get it'. | |
Triste wrote:
They are a thief, and they are clogging the hub. If people expect making a game to be easy, they should stick to RPGMaker. Again, the key is that they aren't building anything. Byond wasnt meant to be easy, it was made for the people who WANT to make a game and learn something out of making it. I, myself can code pritty well, and now im on to using Sphere, which is a bit harder than byond. Byond was not meant to be a way to show off, how you can steal someones work, it was to let you learn how to get the basics and more advanced technequies of coding. | |
Ah, that's the thing; they aren't building it. They are taking someone else's source code and icons, change the GMs, and call it their game. If that's your net dream, BYOND is not the place for it. They key is that you build your net dream, not steal someone else's.
They are a thief, and they are clogging the hub. If people expect making a game to be easy, they should stick to RPGMaker. Again, the key is that they aren't building anything.
If I took the Mona Lisa and wrote my name at the bottom of it, it's not my work. All I did was write my name on it, but the rest of it isn't my work. These people take other's code, make themself a GM, sell GM status to other people, and call it thier game. I don't mind the fact that they clog the hub; what really bothers me is how wrong what they do is. It kills me that DM is so simple, but people have to steal code from someone else to make a game.