EnigmaticGallivanter wrote:

16 some years later, BYOND is just now reaching a point in its developmental stage where it can actually be competitive with other cross platform development kits and that's great. I hope that if funding keeps up and development morale doesn't stagnate that the impending release of the HTML5 client will provide BYOND's brand with more quality deliverables that will boost the official reputation.

No offense, but you're looking at it the wrong way. First off, I don't buy this "16 years later we finally..." comment because it's just not true. These cross-platform development kits haven't been around that long (I know because I struggled finding any resources in the late 90s) and in the space BYOND works (easy multiplayer), we've always had our niche. But more importantly, I don't want people to be thinking that because we're releasing a web port that suddenly everything changes. Like I've said probably a hundred times-- this is a largely complete project (for better or worse). Yes, I hope that being able to play in a browser will allow us to extend our audience, but I don't believe it's the deal-breaker because if BYOND doesn't do what you want right now, this isn't going to really change it.

That said, I am optimistic about this release because we went further than I hoped-- due to the functionality of JS and using it as a core component for the developer, there are a lot of client-side possibilities that didn't exist previously-- and if it proves to be somewhat operable I think we will see some success. But even if it does explode, I can't say what that means for BYOND development because sometimes a product is just complete, you know? We'll see.

At any rate, you all will have a new toy to play with pretty soon.

EnigmaticGallivanter wrote:

that is just reputation gained from hearsay or bad experiences from people who came here at a time when quality didn't exist.

Sorry, what? Quality exists now?

EnigmaticGallivanter wrote:

A.T.H.K wrote:

EnigmaticGallivanter wrote:

that is just reputation gained from hearsay or bad experiences from people who came here at a time when quality didn't exist.

Sorry, what? Quality exists now?

If your game isn't "map element to the left, verbs and chat to the right", technically that is quality. If you can run your game off the map element only, that's a start at quality. Most of the Game Jam entries, were above and beyond what most people would ever see if they had to think about BYOND games. So yeah, that's quality, there is definitely product utility in those games.

The large output on NEStalgia isn't very nice to look at, but other than that it's all map based, that's appealing, i see quality. SS13 has quantity.

Ter13 for the win for the Game Jam.

BYOND's community is the most egregious example of "a bad carpenter blames his tools." Except to the point where the bad carpenter stands outside the hardware store he bought his tools from threatening to burn it down because screwdrivers aren't good for driving nails into a wall.

LordAndrew wrote:

BYOND's community is the most egregious example of "a bad carpenter blames his tools." Except to the point where the bad carpenter stands outside the hardware store he bought his tools from threatening to burn it down because screwdrivers aren't good for driving nails into a wall.

Meanwhile there's another hardware store just across the street that he can go to, at any time, and get a better set of tools. But for some reason he's dead set on never crossing the street and continuing to use the tools he thinks are primitive.

Fugsnarf wrote:

The analogy kind of falls apart there. Those tools require a great amount of extra learning and effort, unlike picking up some superior power tool. Most BYONDers are stuck here and complain because they're too lazy to learn something else. I'm too lazy to learn something else, but I don't complain about DM.

Game Maker and Construct 2 are just as simple as BYOND, and the latter just recently added built-in networking so it's virtually a drag-and-drop BYOND at this point. There's literally no "great amount of effort" involved, I've used both.

Going from BYOND to Game Maker is like, going from a screwdriver to a power drill. It might be a little harder to handle but it's not like going from a screwdriver to having to operate a bulldozer. Unity might qualify as a bulldozer, but then again, I don't think Unity was intended to be like BYOND in that people can make games all by themselves. Unity was made with professionals in mind, and professionals tend to work in organized teams.

Distribution is a big one for me, and it's why I'm excited for the HTML5 client.

King_LiOnZ wrote:

We can improve the reputation of the engine by possibly adding what's being requested?

As a pixel artist, I've found that DM starts to lag once you exceed the bounds of approximately 100 x 100 on BYOND. People want to be able to do one thing in one application, rather than hopping back and forth like a game of Frogger. Often, I find myself having to dip and go to paint to make pretty much all of my icons because DM can't handle it.

More features do need to be added to DM (further reiterating the need for new features), and though I digress, for BYOND Membership. I'd be more willing to financially commit to BYOND if I actually saw the benefit of it for myself, as well as the software. All I keep with my BYOND membership is this small icon under my key and am rid of 30 second adverts when joining games. How about adding in the standalone option for members, rather than charging $100 or however much it was? That's a perk that I'd be willing to burst my banks for.

I've visited the BYOND website everyday for the past year(s) now, although I don't participate in the community discussions. Mind you, the title of this post caught my eye, and so I decided to add a lil' something.

If I was somebody else and I saw that BYOND (though diverse) still lacked quite a lot, I would think "Why not go to Yoyogames where I can easily make a game and have it as a .exe! Unlike BYOND, I can also export my projects to ios..." etc etc. Comparing BYOND to other game makers is a good way to develop and push forward (I don't completely doubt whether the staff have been doing that).

Flash drains battery, pages incorporating flash take longer to load, and the flash client has taken many years to develop, and it's still not out. As a whole, flash has it's advantages and disadvantages. Though browser games have a reputation for being of poor standard.

Just a few things to think about.

*Slowly scribbles out his sentences, glaring at Crazah from behind his shoulder*

Thanks xD. It really doesn't help when people say "flash client".