Unreasonable Subscription Price?

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May 13 2002, 4:16 am
In response to Shadowdarke
Ya i have no problem with charging byond dimes for EXTRA features. And considering i don't have a handy dandy credit card i am never gonna get extras anyway. Quite frankly as long as i can play thats fine.

*looks at his wallet*

Not a single byond dime.
May 13 2002, 6:28 am
In response to Xzar
Xzar wrote:
But that is not the issue. Right now byond's population >is low due to it not being publicly released.

I'd like to think that when it comes to game creation software, I have a pretty reasonable knowledge of what's available.

But up until a few months ago I had NEVER even HEARD of Byond. The only way I even stumbled upon it, was a random post that someone had made to 'rpg.net' regarding their Byond game.

So yeah... a little advertising and promotion could go a long way towards increasing the user base.

Regards,
Corporate Dog
May 13 2002, 7:06 am
In response to Corporate Dog
LOL!! I think that was me. What game were they advertising?
May 13 2002, 8:03 am
In response to RagnarofBurland
This is another part of the "golden Dimes syndrome." Why do people always bring up credit cards? What do credit cards have to do with anything? I didn't have a credit card when I made my first deposit, and I haven't used the credit card for dimes since then.

I don't care if you're twelve, you can still get money orders. You can get them from the post office. You can get them from the customer service desk at your local chain store.
May 13 2002, 8:12 am
In response to Shadowdarke
If all quality games charge five dollars a month, people will pay it without complaint. There will always be low quality free games on BYOND for people who don't like the rates.

<LJR_STYLE_COMMENT>

And remember, if you want your game to scream "quality here!" be sure to invest in some spiffy graphics before you go to far with it!

</LJR_STYLE_COMMENT>
May 13 2002, 8:19 am
In response to Lesbian Assassin
Lesbian Assassin wrote:
[snip]
I didn't have a credit card when I made my first deposit, and I haven't used the credit card for dimes since then.
[snip]

Lucky girlfriend ([link]). ;)

PS: Am I pitiful for remembering that or responsanalible for making sure to look it up first? ;)
May 13 2002, 8:22 am
In response to Lesbian Assassin
This resembles almost any game you would buy that can't be plucked directly from the store aisle. If you want to buy a great game that some at-home programmer developed and is selling online through his home business, you'll have to get out your check and send the $30 or whatever over the mail, and wait for for your game to arrive before you play it. At least with BYOND, shipping is online one way. Once Dantom gets your money, you get your dimes.

Only instead of paying $30 for your copy of "The Legend of Blackthorn" or whatever, you get this:

Proelium
Star Traders
Runica
Echelon
LaserWars
Shapeshifter
Snow Boarder
Birdland
DragonSnot
Tanks
Lexiconomy

With $22.90 left over to spend on a massive supply of Amulets of Power (or whatever) in The Trinity Star for 5 dimes each...

You know, now that I think of it, the number of actual subscription games out there is pretty small...
May 13 2002, 8:22 am
In response to ACWraith
Ha. As it happens, I still haven't sat down enough to play games and see which ones are worth spending money on.
May 13 2002, 8:25 am
In response to Lesbian Assassin
Looking at that list I just made, the results show that there are virtually no large games that require subscriptions. No large online RPGs with worlds to explore, only 1/4th of which can be reached without paying a $1 fee or anything. All the RPGs are free. It's mostly the board games and a few action games that charge.
May 13 2002, 9:04 am
In response to Lesbian Assassin
Actually, if you go to any Pantry owned gas station (Lil Champ, Pantry, Sprint, Smokers Express, Handy Way and a few others) you can now buy a prepaid MasterCard for as little as $30 which requires no ID, and has no age limit. It is limited only in that it is not accepted by porn sites, online or offline casinos, and a few other places. Other than that, it works just like a regular debit MasterCard. Granted many of the people with no Credit Card don't have $30 either, but it does change the complaint from 'I don't have a Credit Card' to 'I'm broke' which means they probably wouldn't be putting dimes into the system anyway.
May 13 2002, 9:24 am
In response to Flick
Actually, if you go to any Pantry owned gas station (Lil Champ, Pantry, Sprint, Smokers Express, Handy Way and a few others) you can now buy a prepaid MasterCard for as little as $30 which requires no ID, and has no age limit.

Suddenly, living in the USA appeals to me.
May 13 2002, 11:41 am
In response to Foomer
Weak!!! You can do better than that mate! :P

LJR
May 13 2002, 11:46 am
yeah ive seen worse stand alone games that turn a profit at 7$
May 13 2002, 11:47 am
In response to Foomer
Foomer wrote:
You know, now that I think of it, the number of actual subscription games out there is pretty small...

You know I think you hit something there..
Perhaps thats part of the problem, which someone charges with a subscription, everyone is so use to not seeing it that they just whine and complain. If you've got an original game with now copyright or trademark issue, I encourge you to charge something for your games. I all for the developer to get something back other than just saying how fun it was. But if that is reward enough, then good luck not all of us can afford to say that.

LJR
May 13 2002, 11:58 am
In response to Foomer
Foomer wrote:
Looking at that list I just made, the results show that there are virtually no large games that require subscriptions. No large online RPGs with worlds to explore, only 1/4th of which can be reached without paying a $1 fee or anything. All the RPGs are free. It's mostly the board games and a few action games that charge.

LivingDead is classified as an RPG (don't know if that's accurate or not but we chose it because you can do character advancement of a sort and it doesn't have to be a multi-player game), and has a BYONDscape subscription requirement if you want to play as Lwen, the bad guy. It's not a large game at the moment, but by the time it's done it should have a reasonable amount of content.

It's interesting to read ShadowDarke's experiences, 'cause we're now in the same boat, since people actually play L&D (DragonSnot and Birdland seem to be respected but not played so much)...figuring out what to charge for in the future (there will be a character server, for example) and whether to let non-subscribers host games in the future.

The other question is whether to just use the BYONDscape subscription, or have another subscription level. I'm happy to support BYONDscape, but at the moment, at least until some kind of referral system is in place for subscriptions, the DDT only gets a small benefit once, even though the game might drive people to getting BYONDscape subscriptions far into the future. (I already know of some who have subscribed/want to subscribe/or re-subscribed because they want to play the bad guy.)

All these questions are up in the air...
May 13 2002, 12:16 pm
In response to Flick
Granted many of the people with no Credit Card don't have $30 either, but it does change the complaint from 'I don't have a Credit Card' to 'I'm broke' which means they probably wouldn't be putting dimes into the system anyway.

If you pressure the people with the "I'm broke" complaint, it turns into "I have a very recent computer system with tons of accessories and can afford to spend an average of 6 hours a day playing games, but $1 is a back-breaking fee you cannot possibly expect me to be able to pay, you cruel, heartless money-grubbing bastard!"
May 13 2002, 12:22 pm
In response to LordJR
LordJR wrote:
[snip]
Perhaps thats part of the problem, which someone charges with a subscription, everyone is so use to not seeing it that they just whine and complain. If you've got an original game with now copyright or trademark issue, I encourge you to charge something for your games.
[snip]

Charging for a finished original product is one thing. However, most of the games I see are in testing. (Those that don't have their status set should set it properly.) Alphas and betas should not be subscription material. I've seen plenty of closed testing games. They are fine. However, anyone obnoxious enough to charge me to work for them should be shot.

That said, I'm all for the charge for expansions. Console makers take a loss on the hardware in order to sell software. Making the basic game free could possibly be seen in the same light. Free sections are a good way to advertise the shiny expansion glitter. (However, there is a point where the cost of the basic game has to be made up for.)
May 13 2002, 12:29 pm
In response to ACWraith
I could of used the same time I put into my games to go get a 2nd job somewhere and make money for sure. But I love making games and telling a story than slaving away at a job that comes with sure pay. I'd only like others to reconize this and respect the fact that I am here. One way of doing this is to show your support to me and other game creators here and pay the very small subscription fee they ask. Also watch out for fakes and misrepresentation while here. I know some people have put more money into ill-fated things than legit games on BYOND.

LJR
May 13 2002, 12:40 pm
In response to LordJR
Er... I did not argue with money or recognition. Despite the fact that I am broke (as in no income, not spent it all on fancy gizmos), I support charging for games.

What I do not support is being charged for unfinished experiments. Testers work for you. Either give them credit for their work or serve them as a customer. Don't charge your employees. Those people could of got their own second job and bought your butt. When the product is finished, then you may wipe their files and start charging.
May 13 2002, 12:44 pm
In response to ACWraith
hehehe forgive me, I sometime just reply to a post but normally my post are directed at the community rather than the person's post I'm replying to. See if from my perspective as commenting to everyone. This often makes people here on the forms think I'm talking to just them simply because I replied to their post. I'll try to remember to add in the start of my post who I am addressing.

Cheers!
LJR
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