In my experience with the BYOND economy, that is, making money off games & stuff, I've started wondering about the way people are pricing things. You know, 1-2 dimes, maybe 5-10 at best to subscribe to a game. I'm wondering, at prices like that, what's the point?
What real benefit is there in earning minimal amounts from a game, perhaps $10-$20 or so, maybe more if you're game is really popular and has monthly subscriptions (Tanks, Proelium). For the most part, the income from such subscriptions doesn't seem worth troubling people over. I mean, suppose 1 in 10 BYONDers has any dimes at all. Most people aren't going to invest a bunch of money at the sight of little (often cheapy) games. That means, 90% of the BYOND population probably isn't enjoying your game as much as they would were it free.
On the other end of the spectrum, if you ARE going to charge for games, why charge such small amounts? Wouldn't it be better to put a bit more work into the game (especially graphically) and raise the price to at least a decent $5 for a subscription (or less if it's monthly) and make what could remotely be called a profit? After all, the people with dimes usually have a lot of dimes if they have any dimes, or at least enough dimes to buy a $5 game or two.
So basically, it seems that people should be either charging a decent fee to play their games, or not be charging at all. those 1-2 dime fees are seriously annoying, and really don't benefit the author much either. Players with no dimes simply have no way of playing with a subscription, and for the most part, people lose without any real winners.
At the time, I've made somewhere around $200 dealing with BYOND. It hasn't really been worth the trouble, since I've been with BYOND for 18 months now. The only projects I've managed to make any money on (the ones that actually got off the ground) made around $10-$20 each. Big whoop. Those games were dealing with small numbers, and the number of subscriptions was fairly small. The rest of the money came from selling graphics (which most people complain are too highly priced), and it turns out that's been by far the most successful means of income. Although I've had very few subscriptions, since the prices are high enough to actually count for something, I'm making money off it.
The point I'm trying to get at is this: If you're going to make games that you'd consider worth a small subscription, less than 10 dimes, just make them free. Otherwise, put enough effort into your games to make them worth more than that, and charge a decent price. That makes it easier for the people without dimes, and more beneficial for the people making and selling the games.
ID:153876
 Nov 17 2002, 11:02 pm (Edited on Nov 21 2002, 2:28 pm)
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Yeow! You've made over $300 off Proelium? I think we know what kind of games are popular on BYOND :o)
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RoL (my first, and most ambitious project that still hasn't gotten past vaporware status) will have a fairly pricey plan, for a BYOND game. The complete game will encompass 6 episodes, each an entire game in itself. The first episode will be free to play, introduces the main characters and story, and allows players to familiarize themselves with the world. Each episode thereafter will be 50 dimes for life, making the entire game a healthy $25. I know not everyone can afford it, but I'm hoping to get enough people hooked with the first episode to convince them to purchase the other 5. I may even consider a full refund to the first 10 people who finish the game, to encourage more to play....
I also plan on advertising this game aggressivly outside of BYOND, in hopes of maximizing profit potential, as well as luring more developers and (hopefully wealthy) players to BYOND. ~X | |
Yeah, Ive often seen games that offer a subscription 'lifetime subscription for a single dime' and thought, why bother. It only means that I (And a whole bunch of other BYONDers) cant play.
Im not to experienced with dimes (Since I have none) but arent they only worth 10 cents US? That would mean to make a actual profit off the game youd have to get a lot of subscriptions (Just to cover the costs of getting the dimes turned into real cash). Also, a lot of these games wont even give you a demo of what your subscribing too. You read the description 'A great MMORPG. Now in Beta Stages', and have no clue what its on about. It could be the greatest MMORPG in the universe, or it could be Chat Room with a map. Its annoying for those who cant get dimes (Without selling out, which goes against my metal upbringing =P), sort of like going into McDonalds with 20 cents, your only 10 cents away from being able to get something, but no matter how much you search your not going to get it. -DogMan | |
Honestly, I don't feel that hub pages help the situation. The moment you create a subscription, a big notice pops up with only one of the offers. The customer will see a price they are not willing to pay and not bother to download the file of unknown size. The fact that someone could possibly download a game free without subscription features is not mentioned. Those with enough BYOND experience may think the Run link is obvious. Those without will not. "BYOND Passport" sounds like some porno age verification system.
Webcrawl is currently 3 BD/month, 30 BD/year and 50 BD for life. Before today, I had only the 50 for life offer which will drive out those unaware they can try it for free. Unfortunately, customers will now think that I'm going to nickel and dime them to death instead because only the 3 BD/month offer shows before you click the subscribe button. Granted, I can write the extra offers on the page using the tiny input box for Info Text. (Okay, that's a whine. ;) ) However, they will not be as noticable as the box in the header and if I forget to update them then I'm using false advertising. PS: Mind you, I'm not saying that's why I have a lack of subscribers. I just think it's something that needs fixing. | |
I've looked at Dimes, and considered making a game for subscription play. When I do work, or offer it, I want to get Dimes for a reason, not so much for the money, but because if someone is willing to actually pay for your work, it shows you have good work. That's pretty cool for me.
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I should add one key detail: there are still shareware games from the early nineties that still cost $20 to purchase. Since BYOND's graphics are about the same as what you'd see in the shareware games of yesteryear, I leave it up to the reader to draw a conclusion there.
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I agree with your comments, Foomer. I also think that we may have made a mistake in going with the "dime" as a unit of currency rather than the "dollar". The idea was that "10 dimes" is supposed to sound less than "1 dollar", but it may have had the reverse effect. I suppose we can always change this down the line.
It is good to see games like Proelium actually making a non-negligeable amount of money even now, when our audience is fairly tiny. I realize that this kind of thing isn't the norm-- most people have trouble even selling a few copies of their games, but I think as we become more popular and expand to much more diverse user bases this will become more and more common. I should take this time to mention, however, that we are going to be changing the pay-cut model for subscriptions. Basically, there is no way that we (Dantom) can survive with the current model, which is a 10% flat-cut on all cash-outs. The expense-per-user is higher than the income-per-user, so even if we generate a huge audience we will lose money. Instead, we are going to go with "publisher" model, where we take a much more substantial cut on subscription sales and remove the withdrawel fees. We're thinking of 40-50%, so a $2 subscription would net the author $1 and us $1. While this will undoubtedly incur some backlash, realize that, with the way the economy is currently setup, a seller could probably just double all charges (charging 50 dimes instead of 25 dimes) and not lose any sales. A lot of posts in this thread have alluded to this very point. | |
That idea is easily the greatest thing since Snickers with Almonds*.
*The greatest thing since Vanilla Coke** **The greatest thing since sliced bread*** ***The greatest thing since bread | |
Lesbian Assassin wrote:
That idea is easily the greatest thing since Snickers with Almonds*. Whoah.. they have Snickers with Almonds? Time to run to the candy machine downstairs. -AbyssDragon [Edit] Dissapointment: It has none. | |
SilkWizard wrote:
However, 77 people have signed up for a lifetime subscription at 40 dimes a pop. I see no reason why a BYOND game shouldn't charge at least 10-20 dimes per month for a subscription, with an option of a lifetime subscription at a higher price. Maybe my game idea isn't that bad. ^_^ | |
One kid paged me and claimed to be his older brother. He said that his younger brother (the first person I mentioned) had died in a car crash, and that any dimes people could spare would be appreciated. When I asked what good the dimes would be for, he confessed that he just needed dimes for a subscription to Proelium. That's just something I found funny that this topic reminded me of.
I think the problem with low costs for games is that many people's parents won't allow them to deposit money, so the only dimes they have are the few that they (most likely) conned people out of. And if they only have 10 dimes, and have virtually no source of dimes, then not only could they not afford many higher priced games, but they would probably be hesitant to spend their dimes. Or they'd blow their dimes on a Zeta code. | |
This is the easiest way for ANYBODY to get their own dimes. No parents. No hassle. Simply take 2 weeks allowance (if you don't get allowance, hunt down pop bottles and return them until you have some money). Let's assume you get 10 dollars saved up.
1) Head to 7-Eleven (or a grocery store if you don't have a 7-11) 2) Request to buy a money order, an 8 dollar money order (You will probably be charged $1.50 for the money order itself) 3) Recieve your money order, head home 4) Grab an envelope, write the following on the front: Dantom 833 Maple Terrace Madison, WI 53705 5) Buy a stamp off your parents (if they don't have a stamp, go to the post office and buy one) 6) Place the stamp on the envelope 7) Write your BYOND key on the money order, place it in the envelope 8) Mail the finished letter (either head to your own mailbox, put it inside (remove any other mail) and raise the flag, or head to the post office and place it in the "Out of Town" box I hope this helps those of you needing dimes, but parents feel it's a ripoff or a prank, and won't allow it. Not that I condone going around your parents. This is just easy. | |
I should take this time to mention, however, that we are going to be changing the pay-cut model for subscriptions. Basically, there is no way that we (Dantom) can survive with the current model, which is a 10% flat-cut on all cash-outs. The expense-per-user is higher than the income-per-user, so even if we generate a huge audience we will lose money. Instead, we are going to go with "publisher" model, where we take a much more substantial cut on subscription sales and remove the withdrawel fees. We're thinking of 40-50%, so a $2 subscription would net the author $1 and us $1. While this will undoubtedly incur some backlash, realize that, with the way the economy is currently setup, a seller could probably just double all charges (charging 50 dimes instead of 25 dimes) and not lose any sales. A lot of posts in this thread have alluded to this very point. I think the main backlash problem will be the changeover that established games go through. Suppose you switch to this system at the start of 2003, for instance, and someone unaware of the impending switch set up a game with a $5 subscription that was released in early December. As soon as the changeover hits, they either have to make a price hike (which tends to cause a worse player reaction than simply charging $10 from the outset) or else make half as much money. On the whole, though, I think this is a great idea and should be implemented as soon as possible (along with the 800 million other changes that should be implemented ASAP), just so long as there's plenty of advance warning. | |
Perhaps a gradual shift would be preferable -- start off with Dantom taking 5%, and increase the cut by 5% on a monthly basis (with plenty of advance warning, of course) until the target 40% or 50% is reached. That way, designers could up the price of their game in slow increments, and people would be less likely to form a mob and hunt down the author for a witchburning.
(Cafepress takes far more than 50% of the cost, unless you're insane and overcharge, so I don't think people should really be too worried.) | |
I predict that would have the opposite of the intended result. No matter how plain the intenton was made, no matter how widely publicized, we'd see an atmosphere of "Dantom hiked the price again! 15%? What's next, 20%? When will the madness end?"
I say, jump into the deep end and get the backlash over with in one fell-swoop. Give everyone plenty of advance notice, though, so we developers can do "close out" sales. | |
Contrary to popular belief, pricing a game at more than just 10 dimes works. I was scared to death that adding a subscription feature to Proelium would ruin it (and many players were very vocal about just how lame adding a subscription was). However, 77 people have signed up for a lifetime subscription at 40 dimes a pop. I see no reason why a BYOND game shouldn't charge at least 10-20 dimes per month for a subscription, with an option of a lifetime subscription at a higher price.