ID:153409
 Mar 4 2004, 7:55 pm
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I've been thinking for a while now, about just what really makes a game good. Now, I've always felt that Final Fantasy VII was one of the best games ever made. The funny thing is, the first time I played it, it looked crappy since I thought it was going to be a medieval game. Well needless to say I ate my own words. Anyhow, I was wondering just what made VII such a great game. Technically speaking, you don't do much, and you just stand around waiting to be attacked in a battle, so why did I love the game so much? Well, this got me thinking about games; is the mechanics of the game what determine how good it is, or is the content, depth, and how ingaging the story is how good the game is? I think that the game's content, like in VII, even though the mechanics weren't all that bad, was soo good, that even with horrible 1997 graphics and such, it can still outclass almost any game made tody. I think that games that are the best make you think, and are very ingaging, like Megal Gear Solid/2/Substance. It's games like that which I find to be the best games. However, I dont' know why but I was decidly unimpressed with FFIX, FFX-2 (damn it), and FFXI-XII. I'm not sure why...What do you think makes a game good, and likewise, what makes an online game good? Is it harder to make an online good rather then a single player game?
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Crispy wrote:
- I like games with good stories. Stories that could almost have been made into books instead of games. For example, Grim Fandango Grim Fandango *druel* My god, I had alot of fun with that game. I also like the Monkey Island games - LucasArts needs to make more adventure games. One thing that I find a single player game to need is not only a storyline (although the storyline is very important), but engaging gameplay. Final Fantasy 7 handled it beautifully and in an in-game manner - the motarcycle chase, the snowboarding, the submarine game, that crazy run up the train with Cid - and then to top it off, Gold Saucer (forgive me if that's not quite what its called, I haven't played FF7 for a looong time) where you could play everything! Now, I'm not very impressed with most MMORPG games these days (although there aren't many I've actually played). The basic theme is to go around gaining levels, and that about tops off gameplay. Suuuuurree, you can go kill the big Hill Giant at level ten, and at level fifty you don't need to spend an hour just to heal, but that just doens't appeal to me. What I really enjoy - good roleplaying games. The true breed of RPGs, actually attainable with multiplayer games. Text MUDs have been doing this for years, and in my opinion Achaea is currently the best (although the player killing wars in the Wheel of Time MUD held my interest for awhile. Check it out if you're into fighting Trollocs, its the 5th or 6th ranked MUD right now). In the end, I think that a game is made good when there is something in it to hold your interest - A good story, in game puzzles (Ahhh Puzzle Pirates, how I miss you...), roleplaying, or a combination of everything! What's great about Achaea is that it does a pretty good job of incorporating everything in an online environment. I believe that developers often miss an important thing in online games - a story. The story, of course, cannot be static - it must be developing. This means that the world must change as well as the people. Anywho, enough babbling. Viva la revolution! | |
Gathin wrote:
Grim Fandango *drool* Hell yes. Those are among the best games ever. One thing that I find a single player game to need is not only a storyline (although the storyline is very important), but engaging gameplay. Final Fantasy 7 handled it beautifully I should get around to playing that one of these days! Now, I'm not very impressed with most MMORPG games these days (although there aren't many I've actually played). Ditto, and ditto. What I really enjoy - good roleplaying games. Strangely, I've never really enjoyed roleplaying games. Hedgerow Hall, for example, didn't really interest me for some reason. Maybe it was the fact that you had to roleplay animals, and the random success formulas just annoyed me. (Ahhh Puzzle Pirates, how I miss you...) I enjoyed Puzzle Pirates more than Hedgerow Hall, but when you get down to it, there's only so many games of Tetris variants I can play before getting bored ... =) I believe that developers often miss an important thing in online games - a story. The story, of course, cannot be static - it must be developing. This means that the world must change as well as the people. I absolutely agree. Which is the problem when trying to make online story-based games; they can't be linear, like single-player games can. Nor can they have a set number of alternate endings. Just about anything has to be possible. Viva la revolution! Ahhh, that phrase brings back Grim Fandango memories... damnit, that game was good! I want to forget all about it and then play it again! =) GRIM FANDANGO SPOILER WARNING: There was one thing that annoyed me about Grim Fandango... that stupid door tumblers puzzle at the edge of the world. I only ever managed to get that right once, which was the first time I played the game; all efforts to replay it have been thwarted by that puzzle. Gah. | |
Strangely, I've never really enjoyed roleplaying games. Hedgerow Hall, for example, didn't really interest me for some reason. Maybe it was the fact that you had to roleplay animals, and the random success formulas just annoyed me. In reality, BYOND is fairly lacking in the roleplaying department. Dungeons and Dragons remains fun even in this day and age because of the pure roleplaying fun (and the interaction with other human beings may have been worth something, but that's doubtful at best). (Ahhh Puzzle Pirates, how I miss you...) True, but what I like about puzzle pirates was how you could buy ships and weapons and such - and how the puzzles were so integrated in the game. I believe that developers often miss an important thing in online games - a story. The story, of course, cannot be static - it must be developing. This means that the world must change as well as the people. Developers have been trapped by linear single player games. They need to realize that since the technologies have improved, their techniques need to change. Dramatically. Viva la revolution! Finally, someone knows what I'm talking about. I've received that strange looks from people in Chatters when I say that before logging off. And yes, that tumbler puzzle annoyed me to. | |
Gathin wrote:
In reality, BYOND is fairly lacking in the roleplaying department. Dungeons and Dragons remains fun even in this day and age because of the pure roleplaying fun (and the interaction with other human beings may have been worth something, but that's doubtful at best). Yeah. This is why LAN games are so much more fun than playing them over the internet, or against bots. =) True, but what I like about puzzle pirates was how you could buy ships and weapons and such - and how the puzzles were so integrated in the game. Oh, it was well done, I'm not disagreeing with you there. Developers have been trapped by linear single player games. They need to realize that since the technologies have improved, their techniques need to change. Dramatically. Technology has certainly improved, but it's still quite hard to do. Deus Ex: Invisible War had a lot of storyline-related bugs that were dealt with in beta (one of the developers said in an interview that it was scary how many ways the system could be broken). And it's actually just as linear as other games; it just fools you into thinking it's dynamic. Finally, someone knows what I'm talking about. I've received that strange looks from people in Chatters when I say that before logging off. If they give you strange looks, give them back! And include a link. =) And yes, that tumbler puzzle annoyed me to. Someday I will beat that puzzle into the ground for what it has done to me... *cracks knuckles* | |
I don't think there is any solid answer to that. Everyone likes something different, so for one person a game might be good, and for another person it might be garbage. By that logic, I suppose a truely good game is one that everyone likes.
On BYOND, there are some very well made games that only a few people ever play. I would consider them "good" games. But there are also games that I, personally, consider garbage, which attract hundreds of players. | |
Foomer wrote:
On BYOND, there are some very well made games that only a few people ever play. I would consider them "good" games. But there are also games that I, personally, consider garbage, which attract hundreds of players. Exactly. A certain demographic makes up the larger part of the BYOND community. Or at least the part of the community that plays games regularly. That turns the question of "what makes a good game?" into "what do most people in BYOND play?". Now it's easy. Go over to Games Live! and take a look at what most people are playing. Gah: DBZ and RPGs! Now you know that making a (good) RPG or DBZ game will get you plenty of players. I've looked at this before, and I think to myself: "but wait, I don't want to make an RPG or DBZ game!". So, you need to decide if you want to make a game for the sake of getting players, or for the sake of making a game that you'll enjoy making. That's the question that gets me a lot. :/ | |
It's not easy to pin down exactly what makes a good game. You can't point at something and say "this formula makes good games, and games made to any other formula are bad".
- I like games with good stories. Stories that could almost have been made into books instead of games. For example, Grim Fandango, Half-Life, and Deus Ex (and, if I may immodestly take this opportunity to plug my stuff, Your Money or Your Life =) )
- I also like games with no story and little to no reasoning behind them, like Quake III.
- I also like card games, board games, strategy games (turn based more than realtime), and anything else that makes me think.
Three different types of games, all just as good as each other. What do they have in common? Nothing much, except that they're fun.
As for singleplayer versus multiplayer being easier to do well; setting aside programming difficulties for the moment and concentrating only on design, I think it depends what type of game you're trying to make. Games with strong storylines are usually better singleplayer; games where you blow stuff up can often be more fun multiplayer (depending on the game). So this is basically apples and oranges. =)
Edit: I just realised I took half a page to say almost nothing... so here's a link that might help. =) http://www.gamemaker.nl/tutorials/goodgame.zip