I am in the process of designing and coding my second BYOND game. The first game that I was creating, I decided to trash b/c it was a fan game and too many people complained that I wasn't following the actual show or believed I had stolen code (which I didn't).
Because of this, I have decided to take some ideas from my fan game and create an original RPG. The details aren't important, but I have a question:
Do players prefer to be able to be good or evil so there is PvP or do players want PvE only?
I ask because although PvP can be fun, a game (in the beginning) can be much more in depth with just PvE. I'm in the process of designing classes (only one race which is human) and I am trying to decide if all 6 classes should be good or if I should have 3 good and 3 evil.
Thoughts?
ID:152310
 Apr 25 2007, 10:47 am
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Why not both? PvP is ALWAYS fun...but PvE is good for training. I would definately go with both...players are always looking for games that have a lot of features and things to do.
If you are limiting yourself to one though, I'd go with PvE. | |
Game depth is about far more than PvP or PvE. Either one can make for an interesting, fun game. Oddly, combining them seems to produce a lackluster result most of the time with one or the other being relegated to a secondary activity (at best) or a frustrating game breaker (at worst).
An game could be entirely based around PvP- take a look at DAOC's early days or some of Kavir's work. And PvE can quicly degenerate to mindless grind. I would focus on my game concept a bit more, if I were you, as deciding things like PvE or PvP is a pretty big issue on your overall design (and should be!). | |
Shyyk wrote:
Why not both? PvP is ALWAYS fun... I don't find PvP fun in most games. If games have strong competitive elements, I tend to abandon them. So I'm a living example of a case where PvP isn't fun. ;-) [edit]I should clarify: I don't find PvP fun in most character-based games. Action games are plenty enjoyable in their own right, where there is no character to worry about, although I'm still not a huge action game fan. | |
Jtgibson wrote:
I don't find PvP fun in most games. If games have strong competitive elements, I tend to abandon them. So I'm a living example of a case where PvP isn't fun. ;-) Ahah. So you're *not* undead! From my experiences, PvP implemented poorly can have disastrous consequences on a game. Griefing can be a bad thing, and it's easy to make PvP that only appeals to the "killers" demographic. I think there's a Warhammer MMORPG coming out that focuses instead on RvR (Realm vs Realm) combat. As long as both sides are fairly evenly matched, it could turn out to be really fun. | |
Jon88 wrote:
Jtgibson wrote: That in itself is the key, balance. I don't play any PvP games unless all characters are balanced (which usually means FPS or other action game) cause with RPGs if you don't play every day, you get 'pwned' | |
I would focus on my game concept a bit more, if I were you, as deciding things like PvE or PvP is a pretty big issue on your overall design (and should be!). That I totally understand and I have decided to go with only PvE (except in a dueling/training situation). I think it'll be better to start off with that and make a solid game and add full PvP in another release if I REALLY wanted it a la City of Villains. Thanks for the thoughts to everyone! BC | |
CoX games own. I play both, and I'm makin a superhero game here on BYOND. (the game has nothing to do w/ CoX games)
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I agree with you there - PvP is all good and fun in something like CS or Unreal where the whole point of the game is just to shoot each other, but when you spend ages building up your character and someone totally annihilates you, it spoils the fun of the game a bit. Particularly when the same person attacks you again and again and again. And especially particularly when your character's skills or inventory are affected by death.
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How about having guilds pvp against eachother? They could create their own guild or join an npc-owned faction. Anyone that isn't in a guild doesn't pvp at all.
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I have to admit, after reading the http://www.kenjura.com/refute.html article on World of Warcraft, that game's sort of PvP gameplay does strike me as pretty fun... if you don't actually lose anything from losing at PvP, and you get nothing better than kudos and "Honor" points from winning, it sounds like it'd be a world of fun.
In Monopoly, if someone bankrupts you, the game ends and you all start over on equal footing the next time you play. Same goes for Unreal; if someone kills you, they gain points and the game ends, and in the next match you're all on equal footing again. In an MMORPG that rewards PvP, however, if someone kills you your character gets weaker and his character gets stronger, and it stays that way. The only way to get stronger again is to prey on someone else who is weaker than you, in some sort of crazy "go and do unto others as others have done unto you" sort of thing. Removing the element of loss from it and making it into a wholesome pursuit (violence or no) sounds like it'd be right up my alley. ...But I'm poor, and $14.95 a month is way beyond what I'd ever consider. =) | |
I actually play World of Warcraft and I play on the non-PvP server. You can PvP but only if you want to or to duel. Nothing is worse than tryin to take out monsters to complete a quest only to be killed by random PvP players. I like the idea of dueling. I might incorporate that into my game but more of a "betting" situation where you bet a potion and the other guy bets a wand and the winner takes all.
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You don't necessarily prey on the weak. If a person outcalsses you by too much they wont get any honor at all. In other words ganking lowbies is pretty much a waste of time because you don't get anything for it and you're a douche for doing it.
You only get honor if you're on level footing too. One person can't be twice the other's level and still get honor. Also, they have diminishing returns. You get less and less honor for every time you kill someone. After a few kills you wont get anything. | |
That doesn't stop people from doing it anyway. To some, repeatedly killing weaker players would be a waste of time, but there's still a lot of people who do get their jollies just by wasting the time of other players. It's like there's some sort of mantra of "Time spent by making other players waste their time is time redeemed." Every single PVP interaction I've ever had in the game world has been one of two things.
"Oh look I just got 1 or 2-shot by someone no less than 8 levels above me and now he's waiting by my corpse so he can do it again and again and again..." "Whew, that was a close one. I almost died but I just finished killing these enemies and oh look, another player has been stalking and waiting just so he can knock me over with a little whack before riding off into the sunset." I really hate being on a PVP server, but the only reason why I try to put up with it is because nobody else I know would ever dare touch PVE (they seem to think it's less of a game that way, or something). It's either 1, getting griefed to hell and back by players and have friends to talk to or 2, play in a more enjoyable setting, but alone. If anything, this has turned me even farther away from world PVP because I don't have it in me to piss off other players that are just trying to get further into the game. :/ I like WoW's battleground arenas because the point of them is PVP competition with other players, and even earn points and tokens toward equipment prizes for participating. I routinely join a battleground because it's a nice break from turning in quests and the PVP can be fun...when I actually want to participate in it, that is. | |
Sarm wrote:
(they seem to think it's less of a game that way, or something). That's pretty much how I view pve servers. What's the point of getting all that gear if you can't have spontaneous fights? To be honest those scenarios are quite rare. Most high-level people are either in their main cities (which you have no business in), leveling up in the end-game areas, or farming materials. The only time people are in low-level areas is either when they're helping their low-level friends quest (something your friends don't seem to be doing) or farming materials. When someone is farming materials they're pretty much in a don't bug me and I wont kill you mode since they don't want to be interrupted. There isn't a way to measure the amount of joy in killing someone that got the jump on you in a severely handicapped match. And remember, you can have all the gear and the highest level but it wont compensate for your lack of skill. | |
As to good and evil, there would then need to be reasons for good and evil, other than good players can fight evil players. Can evil players do things good players can't? Do good players have to follow specific guidlines?
Good and Evil should be decided by wanting PvP or not, but an actual function of the game as a whole. Before you start to code, these are details that should be worked out on paper. It may help with your decision for PvP or not...