Agriff1 wrote:

If there are sooo many advanced tutorials and complex, very specific built-in procs, and pretty much a developer feast of resources, why are there so many crappy, narrow-minded games out there? Not to mention the fact that there's a ratio of 9:1 Anime to Non-Anime games out there, and of every single anime game, there are maybe 15 that are competently coded, and maybe 4 that have semi-large daily fan bases.

My point is: I know there are tons of awesome coders out there that know the DM language like the back of their hands, and even some that work on projects for years without them ever seeing the light of the HUB. Why don't you guys just stop working in isolation and put a crappy alpha or beta out there? Who cares if only 10% works? In my experience, if you code a game, they will come, provided it's engaging and entertaining. The die-hard fans will love your game and stick with it through all of the pwipes and such.

PLEAASSE post your work! You're brilliant!

In my case, my 10%-working games aren't games yet. They're collections of interesting functions and features which are individually neat, but which are not integrated into a functional whole. =)

Thus, any of my projects, if I were to release them right now, would be considered proof-of-concept demos and would not be playable.

Even Newtopia, which is about 80% complete what it needs to be complete for its first demo, is still not playable yet. Characters cannot be created just yet (I could probably hack in a temporary workaround for that, though), burrows can't be dug even though the underlying code for all of the burrow terrain exists, people can't claim territory to build burrows in, combat code is all implemented but none of the actual attacks are in place (so combat amounts to throwing harsh language at one another), etc.

Agriff1 wrote:

If there are sooo many advanced tutorials and complex, very specific built-in procs, and pretty much a developer feast of resources, why are there so many crappy, narrow-minded games out there? Not to mention the fact that there's a ratio of 9:1 Anime to Non-Anime games out there, and of every single anime game, there are maybe 15 that are competently coded, and maybe 4 that have semi-large daily fan bases.

My point is: I know there are tons of awesome coders out there that know the DM language like the back of their hands, and even some that work on projects for years without them ever seeing the light of the HUB. Why don't you guys just stop working in isolation and put a crappy alpha or beta out there? Who cares if only 10% works? In my experience, if you code a game, they will come, provided it's engaging and entertaining. The die-hard fans will love your game and stick with it through all of the pwipes and such.

PLEAASSE post your work! You're brilliant!

I see your point, but, it's not that simple. The sheep will only folow their one shephard and no one else. Thats basicly BYOND anime and gamers on BYOND. When a new NARUTO game comes out with a new add on that others dont have, the flock(everyone) rushes into that 1 tiny server, but then all the other NARUTO games adapt and make their own addition simmilar to the one someone made to make their game origional, similar to how NARUTO got half clans.

Also, coding is a gift yes, but honestly, an active imagination is way better. Why do you think people make anime based games? Because they dont need to think, all they do is make what they saw on TV on Cartoon Network last Saturday.

Last thing, Anime games arn't bad, it's just that no one makes their own anime game, they just make it a FAN based anime game. I am curently making a RPG that has an anime feal and style, but its not based on anything on TV or any show.

Hmm, releasing a game at 10% completion is a BAD idea. If its only 10% people will play it, see it's incomplete and never visit it again, because at 10% nothing is ever finished and bugs are everywhere. Never release your game at 10% completeion, because it might get your game a title such as "nooby" game.

You cannot use percetages to estimate a game. A game can be finished, but to a gamer it may seem unfinished and it needs more. Some games can never be finished, well all can never be finished. Games are like papers you write for your teacher, you can make it good, really good, but you can always make it better.

-Poal

I think most of the people making games on BYOND don't actually know how to make a GOOD game. Coding, and even imagination arent enough. Even with something as simple as a 2d game needs a certain level of immersion that most games on here just don't have.
Planning the game is a massive part of the development, because without a good idea you may just end up with a bunch of nice features but no actual flow to the game.

I was just thinking how an 'open source' implementation to making byond games could be done. Sort of how ubuntu release 2 versions a year and with the whole community contributing to it. Any ideas on how that could be done would be a good step forward in developing great games here.

Also, with the open source theme going on up there, if you released a 10% finished game and then worked on elements while people slowly see the game could work out ok. You could start of with nice terrains and maps and then implement features as you code them. I'd much rather 'play' an unfinished game that was constantly being updated than wait for months to play the same finished game.

Odracir123 wrote:

I'd much rather 'play' an unfinished game that was constantly being updated than wait for months to play the same finished game.

My point exactly. There are some verteran coders on here that have been coding for years, have great concepts, and know how to make a great game, but they don't release them because "their babies arn't ready yet".

So yeah, there are different ways to create games, and some methods require almost EVERYTHING to come together so that gamers don't hit dead-ends, but there are many more structures that can be built up on.

Example- Slime journey 1 and 2: great games because they were simple attack->kill->gain exp->level games that worked. Metroid was able to add more levels, items, monsters, jobs, and classes to the game without changing the game drastically. Perfect example of a build "from the ground up" game.

With most simple RPGs, which are the most common and easist to make, you've got your basic verbs, objects, and mobs. Keep it simple by creating an easy engine with [bad] graphics. That way, you can pick and choose which features, verbs, areas, graphics, etc you want to upgrade/add without pissing your players off.


And jtgibson: If you don't wait too long in between these updates, people will be able to see a visibe evolution in the game play. Games fail and lose their audiences when the coders give up or take on too big of a project. A coder should always "grease the squeaky wheel" and tackle high-priority changes first.