Jun 8 2010, 3:21 pm
In response to Govilku
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Moonlight Memento
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You aren't reading. No where did I state it would be left to stats, so I'm just going to leave the topic because talking to someone who pays no attention to you is futile.
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Moonlight Memento wrote:
You aren't reading. No where did I state it would be left to stats, so I'm just going to leave the topic because talking to someone who pays no attention to you is futile. You didn't start this discussion thus it matters on your replies. You totally dragged off to "**Why duzz st@s matt3r?** W3 culd all st@rt frawm b@s3s and use it3ms inst3@d" <--- Intentionally got off topic. And who do you think you are using words like futile? Please this is about design please don't flame me with your petty little grammar. | |
The hell are you on about? I can usually understand L337SP33k but I could NOT understand that. Who turned this into an argument about grammar? When WAS this an argument?
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Govilku wrote:
SCREW THIS ARGUEMENT WE BOTH LOST THE TOPIC. -STARTING OVER- This isn't an argument. This is you being obnoxious and stupid and Moonlight Memento getting rightfully frustrated. I'd suggest you take a deep breath, get up, and leave this be for a while, but I know that won't happen so I'll just encourage people to wind you up until you snap and say something you'll regret. Which, by the way, I am encouraging everybody to do. | |
I explained my point and I attempted to end this "argument". So please like I said. Back to the top. No reply please. Go ahead look in your rulebook, matters not. I wanted to discuss some things I saw lately. I'm obnoxious, a slob but I discussed something sir. As previously stated. I think shaping your character should be rewarding and fun. Enjoy my stupid comment.
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*Dr. Phil voice*
Ok now i can see this *quote*"Argument"*end quote* is getting a little out of hand so lets cool it off a bit, Govilku, Moon, were going to try something called a "Trustfall". Now i just want Gov to fall back and moon will catch you safely into his arms, can we do that, ok 1...2...3... | |
Well the topic is "Common MMO mistakes". When you started talking about how they all seem to follow a training method you immediately got off topic, because the topic isn't "Why do Anime Games Suck".
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Govilku wrote:
Intentionally got off topic. And who do you think you are using words like futile? Please this is about design please don't flame me with your petty little grammar. Futile means pointless... He was merely stating that continuing this conversation with you would be pointless as you're not listening to him, and you weren't. Just because you don't know what a word means, doesn't mean it's directly insulting. He didn't flame you, stop being over-sensitive. Also, what he was on about was true. Items and whatnot make for a more diverse character set than a simple training method. If two characters stand and hit a PBag gaining roughly rand(1, 10) in power, they're not going to differ very much in power. Look at Pokemon, each Pokemon has a base stat, an individual stat and an effort yield. What's to stop someone from taking that theory and putting it in play with a DBZ game? Base stats are obvious, they're something generic to every offshoot, individual stats are modifiers relevant only to that individual mob, and effort points are modifiers for specific skills. Say we have three stats: Strength, Speed and Power. The base stat for a saiyan would be something like #define STRENGTH 1 The individual stat would then be: _strength = rand(1, 30) And finally you'd want your three stats for temporary modifiers. strength = calc_stat(src.__strength, src._strength, STRENGTH) I'll leave it to someone else to come up with an actual even stat calculation function. Then you have your effort yield.
effort_yield = list(0, 0, 0) // STRENGTH | SPEED | POWER
If you're wearing weighted clothing, every 1000 steps you walk, depending on the weight of the clothing, could add a point to your effort yield for strength.
if(src.steps >= 1000) src.effort_yield[STRENGTH] += 1; src.steps = 0
So that's one extra point added to your stength. Then say you do a quest that requires you to escape a dungeon really, really fast. You could add two or so points to your speed effort modifier. Coming up with new and interesting ways to change the modifiers without altering the stats is a far better system than increasing a single power-level variable. And can make a simple boring game structure much more diverse. Simply by wearing a scouter, players can game more sight, or something. | |
So, by doing various tasks you are raising a base stat, which (like in Pokemon) determines your total stat (by raising the base stat)?
For instance, 1 base stat point = 2 of the final stat in Pokemon (really Pokemon has a great stat system going minus the damn IVs, everything else is perfect). | |
Moonlight Memento wrote:
(really Pokemon has a great stat system going minus the damn IVs, everything else is perfect). I've been trying to wrap my head around it for days. I just can't seem to make the calculations come out correctly, even when using authentic base stats provided by bulbapedia. To the best of my knowledge, the base stats and individual stats of each pokemon remain static until they evolve, even then, only the base stats change to their evolved form base stats. The only things that change are level and effort points, to my knowledge. The only use for having an hp variable is to keep track of modifiers like lost health or lowered defence etc. But yeah, that's what I was getting at. | |
Well thanks for the grammar update. It sounded quite disrespectful from my point seeing as I wasn't provoking him from the first reply. Anyways I guess I gave the topic a bad name but I just like a good discussion. So on with it. What I'm saying is using items to control and manipulate base stats would be somewhat difficult. Let's say some guy has a ring that increases his speed 10 points. What's to stop a pattern of players from getting the very same items he has. Identical "stats" or whatever terminology you prefer would occur. I guess you can try to make the item's a bit diverse but it's kind of hard to wrap your head around a 20+ item list that is different among each player. All I'm trying to say.
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Who cares if everyone uses the same items? Ideally, every character has different base stats and skills so that there isn't a single best and all of them have a purpose.
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Hmm.. Never thought of it that way... Good point. But to raise those BASE STATS. That's what I meant from the beginning. Not modifiers. But that could work.
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Have something in place where a 'level 100' character's stat distribution is something like 80% base stats and 20% item bonuses.
Make it so you can't max out all your skills so everyone doesn't end up the same. Some systems use diminishing returns when building up stats, e.g. you can have a really high Strength but your Dexterity is lower than average, etc. Plus, if you're doing it right, 20+ items shouldn't be a problem at all. Or 100+ for that matter. My major problem with stuff like that is how to distribute it in a sane way. That should keep everyone different. And even if they do have the same stats, they'll play differently. | |
Seems like either way you plan it someone isn't going to be happy. If people who play the game 24/7 lose to people who play the game 4/5 then they'll probably be mad. While if the 24/7 guys beats everyone easily the other players will be mad. Wouldn't you have to compromise by sorta limiting the overall difference between the two groups, or maybe the game could be about more than PVP.
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People who play the game 24/7 need to go outside I think, especially on an anime game. This is a game, not Starcraft 2. It's probably fine if you give someone a bit lower down on the chain a chance to beat a better opponent. PvP should have some kind of risk with it. Otherwise it becomes a grind to the top of the food chain contest and then you spend the rest of your time beating down new players for 'fun'.
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EGUY wrote:
PvP should have some kind of risk with it. Otherwise it becomes a grind to the top of the food chain contest and then you spend the rest of your time beating down new players for 'fun'. Actually, no, if you put any kind of "risk" in pvp, then it JUST becomes a grind to the top so you can spend the rest of your time beating down newbies so that they can never advance. | |
I think it was ment risk not in a "You loose this" but more of a, "this player, with 3/4 of my stats managed to kill me".
Then again I could be wrong... | |
Personally I don't think MMO creators do this by accident but instead on purpose because they know that grinding + some sort of notification of achievement usually gets people hooked on their game, not all the people but a lot of people. Also community is a big thing that helps to keep people, people who play MMOs usually want to be a part of something.
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