ID:151491
 Aug 20 2010, 2:01 am
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I am getting rid of Levels in my game, I think it's stupid to have sometimes. I Am trying to figure out a new system to use to gain new skills and such without having a level system. Is there any other systems I could use instead?
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Isenggard wrote:
I am getting rid of Levels in my game, I think it's stupid to have sometimes. I Am trying to figure out a new system to use to gain new skills and such without having a level system. Is there any other systems I could use instead? I'm not sure why you want to get rid of levels, but this is commonly done because grinding to get experience to level up is a hassle for players. If this is why you want to get rid of levels you can just get rid of the grinding. Instead of requiring that the player kill 1000 weak enemies to get enough experience to level up, make them level by doing other things. If you kill a boss you get a level up. If you complete a quest you might also get a level up. Players still gain skills by leveling, but gaining levels is less annoying. | |
Levels are annoying for many reasons.
And I might just put in ranks instead of levels which can be gained differently, and used almost the same as levels. I'm just trying to think of unique ways to have the gameplay | |
If you use experience points to gain levels it makes sense to display to the player both their current experience and level. If you use other events to cause the player to level up, you don't really need to show the player what their level is. Instead of saying "you killed the boss, now you're level 27! At level 27 you get the Mega Fireball skill!" you can just say "You've unlocked the Mega Fireball skill!"
This doesn't really change the gameplay, it just changes the player's perception of the gameplay. Sometimes that can have an even greater effect. | |
I could make it randomized too... not everyone will gain a certain skill at the same time, it will be random for everyone. Saying that a level 10 gained a shotgun while a level 15 just gained a handgun. So that it just depends on if the person is lucky or not O.o
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that would piss some 10 and 11 year olds off, since some leve 10 would just pop out of nowhere and killed a level 20. a skill tree would be best so players would be able to choose for themselves and it would be better if it was based on skill points.for the record leveling systems aren't bad, sometimes it depends on HOW your leveling(yes i know you know this).whats truly a hassle and by that i mean not fun is all that NWOTS stuff and fighting retarted AI that just spam attack players and never put up a fight. try mixing it up with movement patterns and things like that. i mean take zelda for example, they worked pretty well with that.
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I see what you mean...
I need to focus on my AI system and figure out a decent way of getting it working a unique way. | |
Isenggard wrote:
I am getting rid of Levels in my game, I think it's stupid to have sometimes. I Am trying to figure out a new system to use to gain new skills and such without having a level system. Is there any other systems I could use instead? You might look into how the original final fantasy crystal chronicles handles this. I am also fairly certain both DS games do not use levels either, but instead use advancement in your equipment to determine most of the stuff a level might. | |
Isenggard wrote:
I could make it randomized too... not everyone will gain a certain skill at the same time, it will be random for everyone. Saying that a level 10 gained a shotgun while a level 15 just gained a handgun. So that it just depends on if the person is lucky or not O.o No, not completely random. Random within reason is acceptable, meaning that everyone WILL at SOME point get every skill that they can. Completely random, meaning 'hey you might or might not get this' is about as bad as randomizing your stat gains on levelup. It just doesn't work, and it irritates people. Please don't do the latter. | |
I was planning on letting them get all the skills but in different orders.
there are two classes for example, now two people choose the medic class. player 1 gets the power to heal at lvl 5 while the other guy gets regeneration. But player 1 gets regeneration at lvl 11. and player 2 gets healing at lvl 9. I was just thinking of how people in real life are different and everyone will learn things at different speeds. So having the game do the same would make it more interesting and you would end up with the skill anyways but yeah I don't know how players would react to it | |
I would be fine with it, as long as I'm guaranteed all of the class' skills in the very end. Though, you might instead look to consider making it randomized within a few levels, so everyone will get the same skill *reasonably* soon, instead of completely random. Just my thought on the matter.
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I understand. There are defiantly skills that are way higher in skill level and shouldn't be learned until after you surpassed a certain level. Though I am still in the process of deciding what I really am going to do.
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One thing you'll need for sure is a skill tree. All that requires is a var for each skill saying what other skills it depends on. Anything that depends on an unlearned skill will be locked.
For all unlocked skills, a simple option you have is to let your players choose which skills they want. Knowing which ones get chosen the most will also help you address balance issues, allowing you to nerf some choices and buff others as needed until you get it right. One idea I rather like is that you could do away with levels entirely by giving each different spell style or type of attack a "signature". That is, a swordfighter might come at you with thrusting attacks, swipes, etc., whereas a snake will come at you with a quick strike of his head, a wolf will try to leap at your throat or bite your arms or legs, etc. These different styles could each earn different experience points, and chimeric monsters could use some of the same attacks in different combinations. As you fight these creatures, you can gain experience points for defending against the different attack types, without limit; likewise you can gain experience for using them, but on a daily basis you can only earn so many points while not in combat (e.g., training). Relative experience determines the chance of an attack succeeding. Some of these attacks could be considered learnable. Any fighting style used by an opponent of your general body type would be suitable to learn, and spells might be the same way. Lummox JR | |
Masschaos100 wrote:
that would piss some 10 and 11 year olds off, since some leve 10 would just pop out of nowhere and killed a level 20. a skill tree would be best so players would be able to choose for themselves and it would be better if it was based on skill points.for the record leveling systems aren't bad, sometimes it depends on HOW your leveling(yes i know you know this).whats truly a hassle and by that i mean not fun is all that NWOTS stuff and fighting retarted AI that just spam attack players and never put up a fight. try mixing it up with movement patterns and things like that. i mean take zelda for example, they worked pretty well with that. Yes, but maybe if you unlock the skill at an earlier time it wouldn't be as powerful, and it would cause some backlash, with a probability for even greater backlash. | |
yea but issengard also said that he wanted realism and in reality people learn things at different speeds, but it is also true that some people will only learn what they want to. people will always at some point get ahead of themselves and will have to face the consequences of it. and skill points are there to limit what they can choose. oh and i didn't mean just skill points should be enough to unlock everything i just meant skill points should be a part of it(there could be level locks, strenght locks, or you might need a certain skill).
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A skill tree is a definite. But I have taken in consideration every ones thoughts. And I think I will go by parts of what everyone has suggested.
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If you've played Monster Hunter, then you could get a great idea of how levels don't have to run a game.
I would suggest each skill or technique having to be learned and trained in like, an academy, or from a mentor. During travels, they can learn from different masters of that skill, though not making it absolutely necessary for them to find these guys will make the game more broad. It pretty much lies in the gameplay though. Make the gameplay more player skill based, rather than how many abilities they have, or how high a level they are lol. Use Monster Hunter as a reference as well, and see how they managed to be a very great game, both online and offline, with out leveling up :). | |
Y'know, I always thought there should be a balance between grinding and questing. Yes not everybody out there is a huge grinder, especially here on BYOND. So for those who don't like to grind, give them another option. And visa versa. Always allow for single and multiplayer interacment other than PvE or PvP, and you will always get more out of your game.
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1. Skillpoints, although these primarily use levels as basis you can tie them into stats if you have training in your game.
2. Training. Skills can easily be linked to stat requirements if you care to launch a couple of procs and throw in some additional vars each skill. (or hold a global list for them which is more convenient)
3. Use X, X times for X Skill. Another common method but is used more or less for advancing in a tree but still a viable option to throw out