What is it? I don't understand why half of the games on BYOND you will get kicked from if you don't pretend you are really Goku, or really live in midevil times. I mean, I tried playing a "solid-looking" RPG a while back... Land of Legends? And I got pinned down for like running away during a battle or something. And then, when I tried to figure out all the hype for Dragonball, I joined Phoenix and got pretty much immediately booted.
I still don't understand what's so appealing about these Dragonball games anyway, but that was my little experience. So seriously, what is the point to making an all RP game? Is it about development about a community? Because assuredly it has nothing to do with gameplay. What are your thoughts - why do you enjoy playing these types of games, or what is your aim when developing them? Because seriously, I think gameplay should always overtake any type of storyline presented.
ID:151434
 Jan 6 2011, 8:27 am
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Well first of all, are you familiar with roleplaying as a hobby outside of BYOND? Because that's sort of important to provide proper context to this discussion. And also 99% of BYOND roleplay games are terrible.
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I think you're taking it a little bit too seriously. It's a game, and acting as a character rather than as yourself is part of the game. You don't have to advocate it, but deriding it because it's not your hobby is a little severe.
It's also a storytelling exercise, similar I suppose to improvisational theater. So yes, in most roleplaying games, story is more important than gameplay, and you aren't intended to play them as you would a non-roleplaying game. (Christ, the semantics get complicated when you discuss video games with true roleplay elements.) But most properly constructed roleplaying games also have well built gameplay mechanics. Dragon Ball Zee: Let's Be Ourselves With Yellow Hair and Superpowers has neither a good story nor fun gameplay. So your question shouldn't be "What's the appeal of roleplaying games?" but "What's the appeal of bad anime games?" which you can probably answer yourself. | |
On a side note, weren't you the one who asked Andrew about Reiamaps? After hearing you say you have no interest in roleplaying, I'm kind of wondering what that was about, since RM is a freeform roleplaying game. That is, one without any true gameplay mechanics, where what happens is more or less entirely up to the players involved in the situation.
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The Zee Man wrote:
Ok I own Finale, was original owner of Phoenix, own DB Zee, DBRP, DBEU, Z Fighters Reborn...I'm the one they call "Tens", and am the origin of all DBZ RP games on Byond. What's the point in owning so many games all based on the same thing? I don't see why you don't stick to one and continue to work on it until it's actually worth playing. | |
I'm not saying they are bad, and I'm not deriding the hobby. I just don't "argue in favour of" roleplaying (except in the case of movies, which are not the same as videogames). Movies are less of a hobby and more of an art in any case, so I'm not going to touch too much on that.
It's not that I'm angry about these games existing - well, aside from the constant progression of ridiculous anime games - but I'm confused as to why they are here in the first place. From a gaming perspective, I'm not sure if it's simply because I personally enjoy gameplay more and that is why I cannot engage, or if there is really something "magical" that happens. Maybe it's just because it's too free, that rules can be bent too easily, and I don't like that. On a side note, weren't you the one who asked Andrew about Reiamaps? After hearing you say you have no interest in roleplaying, I'm kind of wondering what that was about, since RM is a freeform roleplaying game. That is, one without any true gameplay mechanics, where what happens is more or less entirely up to the players involved in the situation. I've never seen Reiamaps hosted, only screenshots, so I could not tell if there were any game mechanics to that or not. It felt like that could be an interesting alternative to NESTalgia or the likes, and I thought it looked a bit nice. As well, don't think I'm not completely against roleplaying. While it may sound like I am, I have not dismissed the fact that I was once a child, and remember playing "Pretend Anything", which was probably the best part about childhood - anything seemed possible and it was all engaging. I doubt my childhood will ever escape me, so maybe I just need to find the right community/game? Reiamaps might provide that as well considering my childhood was filled more with NES/SNES than it was with any anime. | |
The thing is that most RPs are managed by Pre-Teen morons with no sense of idea what RPing is about.
Most do not know how to even RP out their character. Most will just "talk" and use their icon to do the "acting", which is no better than most PVPs. Those who can emote, are often completely useless. I've visited BLH (had the highest quality I've seen), I've visited a Finale variant, I've played SSO, and I've played HWC. None of it was that good compared to the old RPs I visited ages ago when it was purely a chat room. This can be split into a variety of reasons: 1: Moderation is too widely spread. Many people get the moderation on these games, and as a result, they are badly managed. Everyone has their own opinions on rules, and they do not promote actual RP. 2: Those who do promote RP, are completely blind as to how to manage an RP. Running away is viewed as "disrupting" an RP, or making it last excessively long. Being a powerful character is automatically "power playing" or "God moding", even if your character gained it by legitimate storyplot. ESPECIALLY if you're stronger than the staff members. 3: They can't RP properly to begin with. They cannot use the laws of physics in RP, they can't RP out their character's thoughts and emotions, they either expect it short, or insanely long, and cannot accept all branches. My point is don't shun BYOND because it has horrible RPing practices. God knows the closest I've seen was Hidden Wind clan, but the activity there during the day's horrid. The usual appeal though? The ability to completely forget reality. Nuff said. | |
I don't think I shunned BYOND at all - if you were to do a bit of research on me, you'd notice I'm quite the advocate for the promotion of BYOND and all original games.
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As far as actual roleplaying communities on Byond, there may be a few, but I haven't personally seen any of merit. I come from a different place and I haven been legitimately active on Byond for a number of years. However, I have always been an active member of the "Tenarian" roleplaying group, which orginated as a freeform char RP in Yahoo user rooms up until their removal.
So, let's get a little bit of perspective. Do a graphical enironment and roleplay (in the sense of adopting the manners and personality of a fictional character) work well together? Generally not. If you want to see structured roleplay within good mechanics at work, I suggest first checking the MUDs developed by Iron Realms (Achaea, Aetolia, etc). I'm not adertising them, but they do offer an interesting view of a structured world with a mixture of gameplay and roleplay If that's too limiting, try freeform. Though, realistically, that term is misleading. In most so-called "freeform" communities there are both structure and localized rules of engagement to keep things uniform and fair. For instance, Tenaria makes use of a turn-based descriptive combat system (also employed by most, not all, others called T1 or something similar). Furthermore, Tenaria is the name of the world in which the game takes place which has developed quite enormously--a full world, cities, mythos and plenty of other tidbits to flesh it out. This is quite far from "do what you want". Roleplay wouldn't work if you simply did what you wanted. It's story driven, not action driven. All that said, though, you may want to consider one final point. True (if there's such a thing, without sounding retarded or self-servingly elitist) roleplay is about immersion, not gamplay. It is about becoming not only your character, but part of a developing world and a growing story. As to why there are so many half-baked attempts at pointless preset roleplay (like anime based stuff) on Byond. See the other bloke and his comment about "preteens". For certain, it's roleplay, but as a roleplayer who takes us freeform seriously, I wouldn't be caught dead doing it. | |
Slipknight wrote:
*A Lot and Reference to me* Seems you come from a Yahoo-descended form of RP, I come from the MSN Descended, wherein T1 isn't followed, we follow an extra-realistic form called TB (flat out Turn Based), wherein the only rules are that power must have a realistic reason for being there, and that anything, and everything, you did had to be realistic or explainable by some mixture of science, with magic doing certain normally impossible feats due to the lack of real world resources capable of normally causing such actions. For Caution, the point is what this guy said. The people here on BYOND have NO idea what RP really is. They think it's just making a character and telling it what to do. I heavily digress. Making a REAL RP Character is to the point where you don't even technically CONTROL the character, the character controls itself, and does what it wants even when you don't. It's a literal split extension of your own personality or will, a part of you, but seperate with it's own thoughts and emotions. It's literally a true escape from NORMAL reality and immersing yourself in another, which is a huge problem most people have. If you're a great RPer you can do almost anything. RP is about not just making cool characters, but being who YOU want to be. There is no such real thing as "Power Playing" unless you automatically claim superiority. There's no such thing as "God Modding" unless you do such a thing that cannot be possible within NORMAL WORLD PHYSICS. There's no such thing as most RP rules unless there's some in an individualized RP for the sake of balance in that game. All that matters in a real RP, is you, and how your imagination will take your character(s). | |
Latoma wrote:
Seems you come from a Yahoo-descended form of RP Yes. I do believe I specified that myself. I hadn't intended to seem so full of myself. Sorry about that. I was just drawing from my experiences with it as you also seem to. | |
Slipknight wrote:
Latoma wrote: OH no, you weren't full of yourself at all, unlike a certain group I remember from the top of my days. And it seems that despite the obvious gaps in what's permitted between pure TB and T1 styles, we both at least came to the same general agreement on what RP is, proof of RP's truth at least. | |
Awesome. I've been getting back into it recently, so a few of the ideas presented seemed a little skewed. I agree though, but it's probably because RP is more than just your particular combat structure. And even then, I figure the differences are minimal.
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Slipknight wrote:
Awesome. I've been getting back into it recently, so a few of the ideas presented seemed a little skewed. I agree though, but it's probably because RP is more than just your particular combat structure. And even then, I figure the differences are minimal. I stated the major difference. In T1 you're expected to limit your abilities for some inane reason, in TB you're expected to see shit that can cause hell on a cosmic level. And I haven't RPed in ages, however Project TH, the game I'm working on, is basically a reimagination of a World from RPs I did, which should hit home with RPers such as yourself haha. | |
Latoma wrote:
I stated the major difference. In T1 you're expected to limit your abilities for some inane reason, in TB you're expected to see shit that can cause hell on a cosmic level. You must be familiar with what we rather derisively refer to as "Ayenee T1". For whatever reason (lots of those bare RPers) it seems to be the most recognized of the Yahoo worlds. In Tenaria we had no such limitations. We generally found common ground in slowing growth, trying to make characters abilities develop in a believable fashion. I digress though, we won't go into the history of an imaginary world and the wars waged between tyrannical power mongers. But, suffice to say, we weren't concerned with limitations. As to your project--I'd be happy to leap in and have a "play". Immersing myself in artifical places is a good, harmless pasttime. | |
Slipknight wrote:
Latoma wrote: LOL. Expect to see it in 1-3 years considering my projected guess on it's progress. | |
I own or owned 90% of all the DBZ RP games on Byond. Not even exaggerating.
And I can tell you from the inside, it's hard to keep my original vision intact. I didn't intend for admins to run around banning people because they chose the "wrong name" or other stupid stuff like that. It's just hard to keep them from abusing and going overboard.
I'm only on like an hour a day and the other 23 hours the admins run around abusing (majority of them).
When I made my games RP, I just wanted people to pretend they ARE the characters, and that the universe is real. And to cut off their real life self from the experience and what they do in-game. It makes the experience more "real" like your part of the DBZ universe.
I made admins primarily to reward people for good RP, but instead, they oppress people. Their secondary purpose is to get rid of people who are going on nonRP killing sprees and such, but not to harass people over simple things like their name, or choosing a certain race, or talking without brackets, or not knowing how to RP, etc. I didn't want that.
And theres nothing I can do about it. My vision was to have a fun environment to encourage and reward RP but, even tho I'm the game owner, my pull on the community is limited compared to all of them combined, especially admins. So instead of a positive environment like I intended it became twisted and negative. I guess thats just the natural way of things.
I can only manage 1 game at a time, the rest are public hosting and the host gets full control. This is the reason why things get so bad, because most people will oppress others if they get the chance, so that's what happens. The 1 game I do manage has a voting system where players vote for who gets admin, yet they still vote for people who will oppress them. It's like they want to be oppressed and harassed. An hour a day is all the time I can put in to managing my games so all these problems are out of my hands and left up to the community.
In my games, admins are able to edit and add rules. When I log in to one of my games and view the rules, they are nothing like the default rules that -I- came up with and placed there. They've been changed to be extremely oppressive. My original rules were simple, and not based on oppressing people but instead rewarding people. But as I said, they change the rules.