Anyway:
This is all I wanted to say before quitting BYOND for good.
Very well! Have a wonderful life.
And now, with the above inflammatory post, this has all blown out of proportion. :c
Anyway: Very well! Have a wonderful life. | |
Lorenzo is right. Minihosts do little of the job they're supposed to do, at least all the ones I've seen, in favor of powertripping and messing around with powers in the way he has described. This is why I believe the idea of central admins is a lot better, as they're people picked who are known will do the job they're supposed to do, which is enforce the rules.
"But some hosts don't like admins on their server." Maybe not. But this is not the hosts' game. All they did was provide a server to play on, which pretty much anybody can do. They have their own rules and the admins obviously have to respect them, but usually when you have admins based on skill (which is, for the most part, how Pyrce picked their admins) and not "They're the hosts friends." Like Lorenzo said, from what I've seen of the minihosts, most of it is not really enforcing game rules and changing the mode to the one they liked better. | |
It is a host's server, though, if not their game. :/
Anyway: You seem to be turning this from the issue of you don't like a particularly server to a political you don't think that anyone should be allowed to run their own server, and instead have to obey universal admins. That's.. extreme. | |
I'm not saying, nor have I ever said that hosts had to obey the admins. In fact I said the exact opposite of that.
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minihost. n. From the early Forkkite word minihost, meaning "one with the same authority as the host"
This being said, global admins would not, in fact, work for a game of this sort. For one thing, they would leave gaping holes in coverage that you could drive a truck through. I highly doubt, regardless of how professional an admin may or may not be, that they would want to be on every server. For another, even if they were, it would heavily decrease the effectiveness of their moderation. Splitting one's attention between differing rulesets tends to do that to you. It's bad enough when a player calls someone out on something that isn't against the rules on a certain server. It is much, much worse when someone who looks like they have authority tries to do so. The global admin model is more for games that have one ruleset (and usually only one server). And, as a personal viewpoint, I would argue that the host's right of rule supercedes that of the creator in most instances, naturally barring those which would get the game removed. The host is, in fact, devoting time, energy, and in some cases money to hosting the server that they wish to host, with the rules they wish to host under, and the people they wish to host with. Yes, there may be instances where a minihost does something you don't like. However, there is nothing saying that a similar situation wouldn't happen were there admins around. In fact, it would be a worse situation in that instance, given that there wouldn't be any server where you could escape from the admins, whereas the minihost situation is solved by jumping ship. And I'm sure Frosty and Kam have better things to do than watch over a group of admins to see whether complaints about them are justified or not. ...Also, in my experience, being a good minihost is like being a good security specialist. If you're doing your job right, it almost looks like you're never doing it at all. | |
And yet another example of how complaining about mini-hosts will do nothing, because the host is just as bad and the community does not care to object.
http://gyazo.com/91bd95db193564889014115ade682c52 I'm probalby the fourth or fifth person in the span of an hour and a half - two hours that was banned for practically no reason. It boggles my mind that people would support and advocate for this rude and crass behavior. | |
AquanMagis wrote:
minihost. n. From the early Forkkite word minihost, meaning "one with the same authority as the host" Minihosts are appointed mostly by the fact that they're the hosts friends, not for their actual skills to help keep a server good. Admins still have to obey the hosts rules, but if they're actually appointed in a smart way like they were on Pyrce, then there wouldn't be any problems like how there weren't on Pyrce. For another, even if they were, it would heavily decrease the effectiveness of their moderation. Splitting one's attention between differing rulesets tends to do that to you. It's bad enough when a player calls someone out on something that isn't against the rules on a certain server. It is much, much worse when someone who looks like they have authority tries to do so. The global admin model is more for games that have one ruleset (and usually only one server). Edit: I have no idea how I managed to quote that post like that. Weird. | |
Amelia Celes wrote:
And yet another example of how complaining about mini-hosts will do nothing, because the host is just as bad and the community does not care to object. You're not terribly bright, are you? It's my server, and if I want you gone, you're gone. It's kind of simple. Furthermore, as I've been the only active server for a fair span of time, I can guarantee that I do not appoint minihost based on friendship, nor keep them based on that. In fact, you'll find that all but literally one of them has something in common - They have custom modes I enjoy. All but two of them were appointed minihost without me having previously known them, as well. There is no bias here; If I did not have minihosts, you can bet things would be roughly twice as strict. Perhaps even moreso. | |
...You're missing the part where, no. Admins would not, in fact, be forced to follow the host's rules. They would just be friends of Frosty and Kam, and the other admins, instead of friends of the host.
And I will thank you to not bring up that pile of trash that came between Mitadake and Misuterii. Doing so has the unfortunate habit of making arguments far more heated than I would like. Also, as I recall, we wouldn't be here today if people hadn't finally accepted that, yes. Pyrce had serious, serious problems. | |
I am Ibuki.
Aside from that, I think we need an application thread. That'd be nice. | |
Tanasinn wrote:
Amelia Celes wrote:"If I want you gone you're gone" is the kind of behavior that's toxic. It's bad manners to ban someone simply because you dislike their opinion. I know that starting this on the hub wasn't the brightest of ideas, but like I said I didn't know where else to submit my initial complaint. The attitude of "I can do what I want on my server and if you don't like it find a new one" pretty much cuts out the biggest factor of this game, which is the community. Not to mention there is usually just one server up at a time, or at least only one server with a decent amount of players. I liked the system Pyrce had when hiring people for power positions where an application or such was submitted, and people were chosen based on the knowledge that they would be good at doing the job a mod position requires. Unfortunately we leave it in the individual hosts hands to appoint people who don't really care too much about making the community better and only banning people who they disagree with, or injecting themselves because they want to play after a round has started, or changing a game mode because they like it better than what was voted on. On a last note, I'm happy that you're able to carry out a conversation without needing to resort to insults. Well...not really... | |
AquanMagis wrote:
...You're missing the part where, no. Admins would not, in fact, be forced to follow the host's rules. They would just be friends of Frosty and Kam, and the other admins, instead of friends of the host. It did have serious problems, and I disliked Braska like most of the people here, but if you're not biased you can see that the game actually did a few things right. And it was literally a rule for admins and mods to follow the host's rules but still keeping the game's general rules in mind, which was related to things like cybering and junk. | |
Remind me to come into your house sometime, Celes. It's nice to know I could just walk in and start trashing the place with no repercussions.
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Tanasinn wrote:
Remind me to come into your house sometime, Celes. It's nice to know I could just walk in and start trashing the place with no repercussions.I'm going to stop posting after this because it's obvious that people are far too gone to actually solve any legitimate issues such as this and the people who are replying to me don't care because they're the ones holding the position of power (wow doesn't this sound familiar). Hopefully other people who see these issues will be able to get something done. Obviously you can't do that, but I'm not gonna banish you from my house forever for having a different opinion than me. It's nice to know that your reading comprehension is just as short as your temper. | |
Ibuki again.
You're all wrong, Mh is actually a ripoff of dig-dug and we all know that the minihosts are really alts of MetaFrosty. I can't believe it's taken you nerds so long to figure out, and with me telling you, too. Come on, it's oooobbviiioouuss, I mean, why are they -NEVER- on at the same time? Why -is- there only one minihost there doing fuck all. Also MetaFrosty is an alt of DevourerOfSouls and MasterBraska. It's obvious. Open your eyes, people. | |
#rekt
Scrubs, get on my level. | |
Amelia Celes wrote:
Tanasinn wrote: Or maybe I can't take someone seriously when they complain what someone does with their own server, that they are hosting using their computer, on their connection, with their free time. | |
I feel like we need more base rules for MH. Especially if there's only going to be one server on at a time, two maybe.
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Listen. When I started the project one of the key decisions was to avoid internal drama by simply not having any staff. Without GMs, there could be no accusations of power abuse and no actual abuse, plus I wouldn't need to be responsible for the actions of other people and have to deal with the drama that comes with removing staff that aren't suitable.
Secondly, my decision was that hosts would have full authority over their own servers. They are the ones hosting it, therefore they get to decide who plays on it, who moderates on it and what the rules are. They can have things be as absurd or unfair as they like. If the way they run their server bothers you then please create a new server or move to a different one. One thing I want to make note of while we're on the subject though, is that I never said anything about giving hosts absolute power over the game, such as being able to set the player cap much higher or having access to debugging tools such as summoning players or spawning items, which is a misconception that has sprung up a few times. But anyway, an internal staff would not function well and it's up to the host how they want to moderate. All I can suggest is for minihosts to go back to how they were originally and not have a ban button, in order to leave that responsibility to the host themself, instead just booting and muting an offending player until the host can make their judgement. The one issue with that, that I see, is that if the host is away then nothing can be done until they get back. Then again, if the host isn't going to be active, they should probably let someone else host instead. That would solve the issues of server monopolies and let a wider variety of people get a chance to host. Not implementing anything yet, but it's something to consider that might work as a compromise. | |
If you are going to insult people's ideas,get out of the conversation and don't try to act "all cool".
Keep your mouth shut instead of insulting people.Post comments worth of reading,no another crap "Ignore them" s*it.
"The answer is to keep things as they are. A host is not forced to have minihosts and they are not told they cannot have them. It all comes down to the choice of the host".-Taken from Bervose's comment-
I have an idea.Why instead of calling them Minihosts,we call them Hosts?I mean,they have the same power after all,so I see no reason why they should be called "Minihosts" at all,it's pointless.
They are minihosts,not hosts.Their only job is to ENFORCE the rules(which,from experience,I saw so little Minihosts that did this job)instead of having powers like,for example, inject people into the game,change the Mode that was voted by the people for the mode they like and etc.
In MY opinion,they have so many useless powers that makes a Minihost a broken mechanism that ruins the game(I'm speaking for me,I don't care if I'm wrong or not,this is MY opinion and nobody is going to force me to change it)
The Minihost idea is liked by people,but there are people that are against it.You should make a poll.I don't know,in MY opinion, it ruined the game for me,not sure about people,since I'm speaking for me.This is all I wanted to say before quitting BYOND for good.