What n00bs (read: I) really want:

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Jul 9 2001, 3:54 am
In response to Botman
On 7/9/01 6:48 am Botman wrote:
I'm dead opposed to that in BYOND. Complexity = Power. Byond is harder to use than RPGMaker because you can do a lot more with it... less is hard-coded. If we all got together, wrote "The Ultimate BYOND Code Engine" and released it... that would destroy one of the beautiful things about BYOND, because all the games would start to look alike.

Hense RPGMaker being called that, it is limited to making only RPGs. You can make some good, or atleast popular RPGs with it (I know I did), but it's completely hopeless for anything else, though I did once make a VERY basic space invaders game to prove it could be done). BEYOND meanwhile can be used to do a great many number of different game types, which is why I threw away RPGMaker for this (actually it's cause I wanted to make an online game and I had no other way to host it, but that doesnt sound as good). =)

It's not just that you can only make RPGs with it... you can only make a certain, very specific type of RPG. There are many, many things you can't do with it... and many other things you have to bend the system over backwards to do. (Trust me, I know, I got it to do all sorts of things it was never intended to... things that would've been pretty simple to do otherwise.)

The reason I stopped using the RPGMaker programs was that what I was actually using was an illegally copied and altered version of the program. When I make a game, my first goal is to simply make it... but unless I have the idea in the back of my head somewhere that the game can become immensely popular and I can become famous from it, it's just not worth it.
Jul 9 2001, 4:02 am
In response to LexyBitch

The reason I stopped using the RPGMaker programs was that what I was actually using was an illegally copied and altered version of the program. When I make a game, my first goal is to simply make it... but unless I have the idea in the back of my head somewhere that the game can become immensely popular and I can become famous from it, it's just not worth it.

Hehe, don't worry, I also was using an illegal version, though mine wasn't edited, only translated. Whats more, my most popular game was a Pokemon game of all things (gimme a break, it was a couple of years ago). =)
Jul 9 2001, 4:04 am
In response to Leftley
Run! Run while you still can!
Jul 9 2001, 4:54 am
In response to Botman
On 7/9/01 7:02 am Botman wrote:
The reason I stopped using the RPGMaker programs was that what I was actually using was an illegally copied and altered version of the program. When I make a game, my first goal is to simply make it... but unless I have the idea in the back of my head somewhere that the game can become immensely popular and I can become famous from it, it's just not worth it.

Hehe, don't worry, I also was using an illegal version, though mine wasn't edited, only translated. Whats more, my most popular game was a Pokemon game of all things (gimme a break, it was a couple of years ago). =)

Yes, I know... I imagine we were using the same version. How do you translate something without editing it? :P The reason I'm 'worried', aside from general misgivings about stealing anyways, is that nothing I made from RPGMaker could ever go anywhere.
Jul 9 2001, 5:08 am
In response to LexyBitch

Yes, I know... I imagine we were using the same version. How do you translate something without editing it? :P The reason I'm 'worried', aside from general misgivings about stealing anyways, is that nothing I made from RPGMaker could ever go anywhere.

Ah, when you said edited, I though you ment, edited the features, not just translated (by Don Miguial no doubt =) ). But yes, it does diminish your accomplishments somewhat when in order to play your game, the person must already have the program the game was made on. Certainly makes it hard to pass yourself off as a programmer. =)
Jul 9 2001, 5:13 am
In response to Botman
On 7/9/01 8:08 am Botman wrote:
But yes, it does diminish your accomplishments somewhat when in order to play your game, the person must already have the program the game was made on. Certainly makes it hard to pass yourself off as a programmer. =)

Not really. How many people would be able to develop games without an operating system to run the game on? ;)
Jul 9 2001, 5:15 am
In response to Botman
But yes, it does diminish your accomplishments somewhat when in order to play your game, the person must already have the program the game was made on. Certainly makes it hard to pass yourself off as a programmer. =)

I was thinking more in terms of being able to take credit for the game, and having it achieve a wide distribution/audience (not just in the "game hacking" community.) The hurdles I'm thinking of aren't technical, but legal.
Jul 9 2001, 5:15 am
In response to Shadowdarke

Not really. How many people would be able to develop games without an operating system to run the game on? ;)

True =) But I was kinda just mocking myself cause I use to call myself a "programmer" when I used point and click programs.
Jul 9 2001, 5:28 am
In response to LexyBitch

I was thinking more in terms of being able to take credit for the game, and having it achieve a wide distribution/audience (not just in the "game hacking" community.) The hurdles I'm thinking of aren't technical, but legal.

Ah. They never worried me so much as A) my game was illegal anyway cause it was a pokemon game and (B) I figure anyone who wants to sue me can have fun trying to figure out what country I live in (heres a hint, its not USA, or Britain). This probly is actually quite easy to do now (especially cause i wrote it under my BEYOND description, but I assure you it wasnt back then, or if it was, I was too stupid to know it (more likely answer).
Jul 9 2001, 6:12 am
In response to Botman
On 7/9/01 6:21 am Botman wrote:
I guess then, that BYOND's community's objective, isn't to help others MAKE games, but rather help them LEARN the language. Theres nothing wrong in that, but the opinions of most people who posted here do seem to be opposed to the idea of people being able to make games at the click of a few buttons. I guess then that if anyone want to be able to do that, we direct them over to a little program called RPGMaker2k & 95.

For myself, this isn't true. As I pointed out, it's why I make libraries that you don't have to learn much to use. So people can easily make games.

I'm just saying that since people won't bother to use a complete game to learn, there isn't much point in doing that -- might as well design the code in libraries that really can just be dropped in.
Jul 9 2001, 9:42 am
In response to Botman
On 7/9/01 8:28 am Botman wrote:
I was thinking more in terms of being able to take credit for the game, and having it achieve a wide distribution/audience (not just in the "game hacking" community.) The hurdles I'm thinking of aren't technical, but legal.

Ah. They never worried me so much as A) my game was illegal anyway cause it was a pokemon game and (B) I figure anyone who wants to sue me can have fun trying to figure out what country I live in (heres a hint, its not USA, or Britain). This probly is actually quite easy to do now (especially cause i wrote it under my BEYOND description, but I assure you it wasnt back then, or if it was, I was too stupid to know it (more likely answer).

I wasn't worried about being sued... I just can't stand the thought of making something and thinking, "This can never make it big."
Jul 9 2001, 11:49 am
In response to Botman
On 7/9/01 6:21 am Botman wrote:
Im sorry, but I strongly disagree with this idea. It would be great to give Noobs more and better examples, but releasing the source for games would just cause more copy paste games. Im really getting tired of seeing people making games off snippets they find on the forums. I can not tell you how many people ive seen ask for help on the forums, and when somebody replied with an example, the noob just replied that the compiler returned some errors when he tried to paste it in. If people release the source for their games, we would begin to see a lot more copy-paste programmers.

I guess then, that BYOND's community's objective, isn't to help others MAKE games, but rather help them LEARN the language. Theres nothing wrong in that, but the opinions of most people who posted here do seem to be opposed to the idea of people being able to make games at the click of a few buttons. I guess then that if anyone want to be able to do that, we direct them over to a little program called RPGMaker2k & 95.

I had a long rant about this, but I felt it was starting to get hostile and pretentious so I scrapped it, because I'm not trying to be hostile or pretentious. Then I wrote another one, and that was still hostile and protentious. Since it seems there's no way I can go about this without being hostile and pretentious, I'll try and sum things up as best I can. If you've got the patience, dedication, and willpower to make a high-quality finished product, then in the long run, you're almost definitely going to succeed, regardless of what sort of tools you're using. If you don't have these traits, then you're probably never going to produce anything that isn't crap, even if you've got the best of tools. Many people here are jaded to various extents from trying to deal with people who fall in the latter category, and that's unfortunate because that doesn't help anyone out. But from what I can tell, you fall in the former category, and so long as you're willing to learn, you should eventually get the help you need.
Jul 9 2001, 5:10 pm
In response to Leftley
I had a long rant about this, but I felt it was starting to get hostile and pretentious so I scrapped it, because I'm not trying to be hostile or pretentious. Then I wrote another one, and that was still hostile and protentious. Since it seems there's no way I can go about this without being hostile and pretentious, I'll try and sum things up as best I can. If you've got the patience, dedication, and willpower to make a high-quality finished product, then in the long run, you're almost definitely going to succeed, regardless of what sort of tools you're using. If you don't have these traits, then you're probably never going to produce anything that isn't crap, even if you've got the best of tools. Many people here are jaded to various extents from trying to deal with people who fall in the latter category, and that's unfortunate because that doesn't help anyone out. But from what I can tell, you fall in the former category, and so long as you're willing to learn, you should eventually get the help you need.

Well soon you won't need to guess (about me that is) cause my game is coming along nicely, and I hope to release a decently playable version soon. Once I have the game running I'll then work of features to make it more origional. (Don't worry though, it's not a DBZ game). =)
Jul 9 2001, 5:13 pm
In response to LexyBitch

I wasn't worried about being sued... I just can't stand the thought of making something and thinking, "This can never make it big."

<marquee>HTML works here?</marquee>

Ah, for me thats also not been a problem as I really never considered it a possibility. :/
Jul 9 2001, 5:18 pm
In response to Botman
On 7/9/01 8:13 pm Botman wrote:
I wasn't worried about being sued... I just can't stand the thought of making something and thinking, "This can never make it big."

<marquee>HTML works here?</marquee>

Ah, for me thats also not been a problem as I really never considered it a possibility. :/

Note that it also works in BYOND, and that there are many players (*cough*jobe*cough*) who like to abuse it by using huge fonts and the infamous BYOND-only beep tag. Look up the html_encode() function for a quick example on how to prevent this.
Jul 9 2001, 5:33 pm
In response to Leftley
On 7/9/01 8:18 pm Leftley wrote:
On 7/9/01 8:13 pm Botman wrote:
I wasn't worried about being sued... I just can't stand the thought of making something and thinking, "This can never make it big."

<marquee>HTML works here?</marquee>

Ah, for me thats also not been a problem as I really never considered it a possibility. :/

Note that it also works in BYOND, and that there are many players (*cough*jobe*cough*) who like to abuse it by using huge fonts and the infamous BYOND-only beep tag. Look up the html_encode() function for a quick example on how to prevent this.

I prefer the mute() method ;)

mob
var/mute = 0
verb/say(T as text)
if(mute)
usr << "[usr] says, '[T]'"
else
view() << "[usr] says, '[T]'"

player/master/verb/GM_mute(mob/M in world)
M.mute = ++M.mute&1

Jul 9 2001, 5:42 pm
In response to Shadowdarke
<font color=orange size=5 >L<font color=green size=3 >o<font color=yellow size=7 >o<font color=red size=2 >k <font color=blue size=3 >a<font color=silver size=6 >t <font color=gold size=5 >t<font color=lightblue size=6 >h<font color=lightgreen size=4 >e (bah, I get bored easily you can just imagint he rest...) colours people, the colours!
Jul 9 2001, 5:51 pm
In response to Botman
On 7/9/01 8:42 pm Botman wrote:
Look at the (bah, I get bored easily you can just imagint he rest...) colours people, the colours!

GM_mute Botman

(Bleh, close your font tags :P)
Jul 10 2001, 3:27 am
In response to Botman
On 7/9/01 6:21 am Botman wrote:
cut...
I guess then, that BYOND's community's objective, isn't to help others MAKE games, but rather help them LEARN the language. Theres nothing wrong in that, but the opinions of most people who posted here do seem to be opposed to the idea of people being able to make games at the click of a few buttons. I guess then that if anyone want to be able to do that, we direct them over to a little program called RPGMaker2k & 95.

First: can you not reply to my post then quote from other people? It disturb me, when I can't seems to remember to make that commend...

Next: I have tried both RPGMaker2K & 95, before and after BYOND(Dung). They are not as easy as a "the click of a few buttons". If you want that try "Runesword".
http://www.runesword.com/
I have more links to game creation site. You want them???

And: The top programmers do not live just to help newbies. They need to work/study/program. They can't spend their time asnwering the same question over and over again to multiple people. Thats what the FAQ are for.

Lastly: I would like to be told if my questions are answered somewhere. Too many of them went unanswered (good time for top programmers to go to newbies board to answer my FAQs). Count yourself lucky if you get answers...
Jul 10 2001, 5:11 am
In response to sunzoner

I guess then, that BYOND's community's objective, isn't to help others MAKE games, but rather help them LEARN the language. Theres nothing wrong in that, but the opinions of most people who posted here do seem to be opposed to the idea of people being able to make games at the click of a few buttons. I guess then that if anyone want to be able to do that, we direct them over to a little program called RPGMaker2k & 95.

First: can you not reply to my post then quote from other people? It disturb me, when I can't seems to remember to make that commend...

Next: I have tried both RPGMaker2K & 95, before and after BYOND(Dung). They are not as easy as a "the click of a few buttons". If you want that try "Runesword".
http://www.runesword.com/
I have more links to game creation site. You want them???


Umm, that top paragraph is what I said. It's not a quote.

As for RPG95 and 2k, admittedly they take more than a 'few clicks' but there really is no great amount of difficulty, and using them certainly doesnt make you a programmer. I'd send you my old game but its a pain in the ass to upload with my 56k.

Sure, i'll take a look at ya links. =)
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