Shoot! My subscription ran out and I'm broke. Time to go dime hunting.

Gughunter wrote:

Don't fret -- if an author of a BYONDscape article doesn't have a subscription, we can grant a "courtesy subscription." It'd be pretty lousy if you couldn't read your own article! I'll set it up now.

Thanks, Guy!

Ugh, you're using one of those horrible html-generating programs aren't you?

Nope -- I did it all by hand in EditPad Lite. (I even downloaded the latest Netscape and did some compatibility testing; fortunately there was only one problem, and the answer was on my first page of Google results.)

Should I take "Ugh" as a vote against the new look? :)

Oh, And I'd recommend placing the example image BELOW the text, as opposed to beside it.

I did the side-by-side presentation only to save vertical space; I wanted to keep the more meaningful recent updates as close to the top as possible.

Or is the BYONDscape site generated dynamically?

I actually have a program for generating the main page -- I wrote the original, and then Deadron wrote a better version -- and so far I haven't used it because it's so easy just to cut and paste my little "blurb snippet". Of course, I'll be kicking myself for my laziness when I go to create an index sometime soon...

No, the "Ugh" is a result of having half the page run off my screen :oP The way you forced it over like that reminds me of something an html generator would do...

After my last post, I viewed the site in a smaller window and the text shrunk to about two words per line -- requiring a whole bunch of vertical space. The text is on top of the image now!

I was considering offering a remodel (I do that a lot), but I decided I'd rather not flaunt myself as better than I am...

Well, if this new look doesn't help me win friends and influence people, I'll open the floodgates to design enthusiasts. Another BYONDscape reader has offered help in the past, so the best way to handle such a thing might just be to have a contest. On the other hand, since I spent a few hours today trying to get the site to look the way I wanted it, I'll give it a couple weeks to settle in before I invite any new changes. :)

Now I wish someone would do a story on those intelligent few who came to the site to offer good advice and suggestions. And who were some of the 1st to make games with the system.

I'd like to see that too!

There was some ancient group before my days, heard of only in myth...most of whom are gone now I think.

When I got here, Spuzzum, Zilal, and Guy were already here.

When I got here, Zilal and Guy weren't.

However, Theodis and AbyssDragon were. (Air Mapster was too, but not officially, since he could just talk to Tom directly. =) ) James Murphy was there too, I believe -- or it could have been Jesse Murphy (not sure if they're brothers or if it's just a coincidence =) ). Thaldor was there, but he vanished without forewarning. Viper5555/Mike Schmoyer was there -- he left about 4 or 5 months after I joined.

Anyway, it's all kinda moot, since if I really wanted to, I could just look at the forums Tom sent me and see who came before.

But I'm tired and lazy, and I want some sort of candy as compensation.

I'm seeing tiles in the top frame, but not in the top of the screenshot. (Of course, that could just be the size of the picture...)

Deadron wrote:

ACWraith wrote:

I'm seeing tiles in the top frame, but not in the top of the screenshot. (Of course, that could just be the size of the picture...)

Your browser has your top frame cached. Right-click in that frame and refresh it.

Naturally, I tried to reload the frame first. However, I ended up going into my preferences, clearing my disk cache, checking the option to reload every time I visit, and then reloading the frame again. I might have done a little more than I had to, but I'm listing it under Mozilla bugs for now.

I like the new look, as a step in the right direction at least, though it doesn't in fact match the example graphic.

In Netscape 4.7x, the left frame doesn't show the same color gradient seen on the right. (The left frame also, inexplicably, has a horizontal scroll bar; there seems to be something wasting enough space to make it think it needs the bar.)

I like your idea for a contest; it's a worthwhile idea, and there are lots of talented people in this community who could contribute. Whatever ends up being done, a lot of articles will have to be redone to fit the new style.

In terms of general recommendations, I'd go with this:

• The background color should be lighter, grayer, or just plain white; the cream is a bit too creamy.
• I think you should consider making the standard font Arial, 10 or 12 point. (I'm not sure which one looks best in NS/IE, since the two browsers render font sizes differently. Although I'm a Netscape bigot, it seems that Netscape actually doesn't do fonts the right size.) Times New Roman looks all right, I guess, but it doesn't seem as accessible. I'd recommend at least changing header styles to Arial/Helvetica.
• The front page could actually be made more presentable without frames. I'm not one of those who thinks frames are to be avoided at all costs, but I think in BYONDscape's case they're mostly wasted space. A nav bar would be better.
• The front page needs a kind of table of contents look, like a print magazine. Archive links could be provided, as well as searches for different articles or authors. This should be colorful but not gaudy; I suggest a nice red for the headings.
• Since BYONDscape has a few regular columns now, it'd be good to have a letterhead for each (would this be called a "boilerplate"?); I use a rough version in my columns right now. Couldn't hurt to have links to previous columns, either.
  
  Others may have different ideas. A contest would be a great way to get people involved in that, especially if subscriptions were given out as prizes for the most-winning entry and maybe a couple runner-ups. I say most-winning because I suspect the final design would be best cobbled together from several submissions.
  
  And, though this isn't a look-and-feel issue, I think BYONDscape is overdue for a little non-subscription content. I was looking through the recent articles, and for a long while now the only non-subscription stuff has been news or divertimenti--both off-site links. The last full contribution as non-subscription content appears to be ByondBwicki, which even then doesn't quite count since it's mostly off-site too. I think non-subscribers could use a few more teasers. Comments on this?
  
  Lummox JR

Gughunter wrote:

Whatever ends up being done, a lot of articles will have to be redone to fit the new style.

Yeah... Dan and I discussed options for defining page layout globally, but none looked really promising at the time. If anyone has better news than that, I'm willing to listen!

Wouldn't a BYOND CGI do the trick? Deadron uses a .dmb for ByondBwicki. It looks like (but may not be the case) BYONDscape does something similar, at least for subscription content.

All you'd really need would be a fancy version of SSI, or SSI would probably suffice just fine if it's available.

But... but... but the new color is already much lighter than it was before yesterday! And look at what Z said on January 2, after I removed the cream color:

Also... what happened to the BEAUTIFUL cream background???

I already took the bathroom tiles away... must I destroy everything dearest to Z?

Ironically, I liked the bathroom tiles too. They probably would have had to go eventually anyway, but I liked them a lot better than the cream--and in fact they'd look better against a white background anyway.

• The front page could actually be made more presentable without frames. I'm not one of those who thinks frames are to be avoided at all costs, but I think in BYONDscape's case they're mostly wasted space. A nav bar would be better.
  

  Valid point, except I think the sidebar will contain several more links in the not-too-distant future. As for the top bar, well, in one sense it is wasted space, but on the other hand, it, uh... well, it reminds people that they're reading BYONDscape. It's a technique for building brand equity! Yeah! Whew, that was close.

  
  I like the top bar fine--although I think it could stand to be thinner. In Netscape, the logo as-is overhangs the lower edge anyway. (I think it's a margin thing, though the redundant </img> tag and some whitespace between the <body> and </body> tags might not be helping.)
  
  The left frame would be easier to deal with, I think, if it too was thinner. Rendering the text links as graphical buttons would allow you to make that smaller and pretty it up while still serving the same purpose--and you could even put the bathroom tiles there to appease Z. (I think they'd look good there, at least in the current design.)
  
  Looking at the source, I think I see the problem on the left frame that keeps the gradient from appearing there: The <TD> tag it's in has no &nbsp; in the cell. Netscape requires this. The gradient appears on the right because that table cell has content.
  
  

  The main model for the content frame is Lum the Mad, but since Lum the Mad is no longer in business I guess I should reconsider my choice of model. Maybe we could have a table of the "meaty" contents at the top (omitting Divertimenti, News, Updates, FYI, and whatnot).

  
  I definitely like the idea of putting meat at the top.
  
  Lummox JR