Ok. Whats the biggest problem with BYOND? Rippers? A HUB full of DBZ games? Me? Nope. Its that BYOND doesnt have any major games (BYOND's best consists of "Minesweeper" level games, which are great but dont really bring anyone in).
Now to fix this I propose a contest of epic* proportions. Basically you give us all 6 months to make a game. The only rule is that it has to have maps, music, source code and graphics created specifically for the game, or by the games creator.
This means no limits on file sizes, no genre restrictions, nothing. Teams are allowed (Just means splitting the prize).
FanGames are allowed to enter, but they probably wouldnt win unless they really captured the topic (Dragon Warror Online comes to mind).
Now whats the prize??? It would have to be pretty powerful to keep everyones attention, right? Well how about $200 (Or more depending on the budget)? Thats a lot of money for a little part time game that would otherwise generate nothing, while at the same time its not that much for Dantom to generate over 6 months.
Well, it is a lot but it would be worth it in the long run (It would really encourage development of major projects using BYOND).
The only downside is that it would cause a huge increase in dumped projects on the HUB (Everyone would try, but a lot would give up fast).
*Ok, not epic but big...
[Edit] This isnt an announcement of a contest, only a suggestion.
ID:136013
 Aug 29 2003, 6:45 pm (Edited on Aug 30 2003, 2:46 am)
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So, is this contest actually on? I think some dev teams might be able to pull something substantial off within the next 6 months - we saw some nice games come out of the BYONDscape 4k challenge, and that's with massive restrictions on file size. A $200 or more reward might actually get something larger started. :-)
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After having my share of hard work on an epic project, I don't think a $2000 guaranteed reward for completing it would inspire me to "work" on one again. No, I much prefer the layed back "do it in your free time when you feel like it" approach, even if the only rewards are giving yourself GMship and bossing the players around when its eventually done. :oP
Although what would be nice is if someone created a shell for a game, such as an RPG's combat system, magic, conversation, ships, equipment, whatever goes into an RPG, etc... But didn't provide anything except an example of each type. An example weapon, an example piece of armor, an example spell, an example NPC to talk to. Then send out the source code to anyone who wants it and let them add add and add some more to it until they have an epic. So they'd get to add all the items, monsters, maps, NPCs and everything. | |
Which would just promote even more basic RPG games. Yawn.
It would be a good idea with a completely different genre, though. | |
Your proposals sound pretty interesting, but I think I'll alter the guidelines to sound like something I'd be into.
What the game will be judged upon *Originality:20pts *Entertainment:20pts *Graphics:20pts *Gameplay:20pts *Story/Theme:20pts *Total:100pts (A percentage rating) Requirements *A $5.00(American) entrance fee for each submission *Projects must be submitted by Midnight of Febuary 7, 2004. Prizes *A year submission to BYONDscape (If Gughunter is willing) *The prize money (Total entrance fees) *Publicity **Possible interview with the winner(s) (Nice article for BYONDscape I do believe) **(Whatever else you can think of) Judges *Judges will be hand picked by a trustworthy and unbiast member of BYOND. Judges and their immediate family may not compete. Here are my 2 cents, and I feel these guidelines are fair and highly possible. ~; ){en )3ishop ;~ | |
The only problems I have with that are:
A) Enterance fee. I dont think as many people will enter with a fee, and people entering is what its all about. (Although if some of the richer members of the community were willing to set up a sponsor program... Ie, the person(s) developing the game submit a design document, if it looks good then they are set up with a sponsor). B) The point system is good, but I think too many games would get 100. Maybe a system where the judges all get 3 votes. They can vote for what ever they want. Then the top 10 or 20 are picked. Then they do the same thing again to figure out the winner. (If there is a tie, revote using only the tied ones) | |
Lord of Water wrote:
So, is this contest actually on? Not unless Dantom (or someone with $200 to spare) takes it on. To Theodis: The smaller games get done, but they dont really improve the community much. Since they are small they tend to get some people in, but the people eventually forget them because they get repeditive. I know there are lots of incomplete big projects, so maybe the oppertunity to get a big cash reward would push people through the stage they quit at. | |
I know there are lots of incomplete big projects, so maybe the oppertunity to get a big cash reward would push people through the stage they quit at. If the cash prize was big enough it might get something done. But I don't think 200$ is enough for something as big as you make it sound. Even among the talented programmers and game designers here there aren't many that have the kind of resolve needed to complete a large project even for 200$ which seems kinda ridiculus compared to how much proffesional games make. | |
Well the sponsor idea would sound interesting also, but you must understand that Dantom most likely won't be able to support your request, from what I hear BYOND is enough financial trouble as it is, let alone have them sponsor a contest like this. It would be especially difficult because they no longer use their BYONDime credit system, by the time this contest is over it will most likely be phased out completely.
I'm sure if you had an entrance fee, and kept an advertisement for the tourney somewhere in the open, it would work just as well. I know I wouldn't have much trouble sending Dantom $5 through a credit card, money order, check or whatever...It shouldn't be too hard for those that live outside the U.S either, as long as they are close to a bank of some kind (Or even Dantom could convert it in an american bank when they had the time) The point system was just an idea for judging, but I like your "top 3" idea better. ~; ){en )3ishop ;~ | |
*A $5.00(American) entrance fee for each submission Contests are promotional, otherwise they are fundraisers, or if the prize is money, they are gambling. No one will enter one with an enterance fee, let alone a $5.00 enterence fee (That would spit up about 1/3 of the dimes I have left.), especially when you aren't sure you will win. | |
I think a more beneficial contest, in the way of saving BYOND, would be a $200 prize to the HUB administrator who removes Dragonball games from the HUB (or "hides" them all in a separate Unpublished games channel).
No really I'm not just DB fan boy bashing. It's time we started dealing with the real problem of why BYOND's community is so inept (for the most part) at making good games. It's sad when there's better communities for game kits that came out 15 years ago (like ZZT for example). Let's address the real issues why BYOND's community is on the slow side. 12 year olds who want to make a fan game of their favorite anime program do not make good games. That is a fact proven time and time again. I myself will pay from my own pocket, $200 USD to the HUB administrator who does something about the dragonball and other poorly coded copyright infringing games. This is why BYOND has very few good game makers. More mature (not saying that's anything to do with age) visitors come to BYOND for the first time. See the word Dragonball plastered everywhere and leave. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. IT WILL _KILL_ BYOND IF NOTHING IS DONE ABOUT IT. THAT IS A FACT. | |
They have to start somewhere. It's unfortunate that most of them just take the source for a DragonBall Zeta game and attempt to modify it. If there were more tutorials, better tutorials, and the tutorials were a lot more organized(ie, they download BYOND, it refers them to the FAQ; they start dream maker and it refers them to "Your First Game") there would probably be less games like that, and more games approaching high quality.
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BYOND has enough tutorials, demos, libs, commonly used icons AND years worth of information boolean searchable on these dev forums. Problem is it's turned in to a playground. Sure in a way it should work like this, games need players. But the game has turned in to "making" a game for the kind of people who aren't motivated enough to spend the time it takes to make something good. I'm all for charging $5 for each and every HUB listing (including unpublished listings). Most who are against this concept don't realize bandwidth costs real money.
Agreed, better integration from the start after the kit has installed would help. But I really don't see that as the main problem. Something drastic does need to be done, every time these threads are trimmed down for discussion like this BYOND takes one step closer to it's grave. | |
I think a more beneficial contest, in the way of saving BYOND, would be a $200 prize to the HUB administrator who removes Dragonball games from the HUB (or "hides" them all in a separate Unpublished games channel). Though I wouldn't really mind if this happined I don't see how it would help. No really I'm not just DB fan boy bashing. It's time we started dealing with the real problem of why BYOND's community is so inept (for the most part) at making good games. It's sad when there's better communities for game kits that came out 15 years ago (like ZZT for example). I never messed with ZZT much but I remember Megazeux had its fair share of fan games, but I never remember anyone making a big deal ove it. Let's address the real issues why BYOND's community is on the slow side. 12 year olds who want to make a fan game of their favorite anime program do not make good games. That is a fact proven time and time again. Chances are 12 year old won't make a good game period. All the games I made back then sucked too, but the experiance I got from making them was very important to how I make games now. I myself will pay from my own pocket, $200 USD to the HUB administrator who does something about the dragonball and other poorly coded copyright infringing games. This is why BYOND has very few good game makers. More mature (not saying that's anything to do with age) visitors come to BYOND for the first time. See the word Dragonball plastered everywhere and leave. I think Nadrew(or someone else here) emailed Funmation about thier view on fan games. Thier responces was that they didn't mind as long as no profits were made so the DBZers aren't breaking any copyright laws unless they charge for thier stuff. And admins do keep this stuff in BYOND.Raw. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. IT WILL _KILL_ BYOND IF NOTHING IS DONE ABOUT IT. THAT IS A FACT. There has been fan fiction, fan art, fan games, fan whatever all over the internet and it's probably been around since long before then too and it has destroyed nothing. I really don't get why people keep claiming BYOND is comming to an end. From what it looks like to me there are more players and game makers now than there ever have been amd the number is growing at a steady rate. BYOND isn't even close to dying off. Even the BYOND hub suddenly blew up and Dantom vanished I'm sure there would be people that set up thier own BYOND sites and kept using it. | |
Contests are promotional, otherwise they are fundraisers, or if the prize is money, they are gambling. No one will enter one with an enterance fee, let alone a $5.00 enterence fee (That would spit up about 1/3 of the dimes I have left.), especially when you aren't sure you will win. The gaming contests at Digipen do this and it seems to work fine. And occasionally Nintendo donates a few items to have as prizes but the majority of the prize money comes from an entry fee. | |
Garthor wrote:
Which would just promote even more basic RPG games. Yawn. Its not a genre, its just for a contest. :P | |
DarkView wrote:
The only problems I have with that are: The only people who will enter are people who have something worth competing with. | |
Theodis wrote:
Even the BYOND hub suddenly blew up and Dantom vanished I'm sure there would be people that set up thier own BYOND sites and kept using it. If only... (Well, the hub blowing up part anyway. Die hub!) | |
Grei wrote:
I'm all for charging $5 for each and every HUB listing (including unpublished listings). I'm kind of for it too. It might raise money for Dantom, and people who can't afford it can setup their own sites for people to download their games. The only thing that bothers me is how would it work with the official games listing? You can make a top quality game and not get it published, while a just-good-enough game from someone with $5 handy does get published. Maybe just a system where top quality games get "sponsored" by BYOND and put on the official listing for free wold work... I dunno. | |
I think the major problem is that too many people are trying to make huge projects and not getting anything finished. Simpler games are the type that actually get done. Big projects can be done but not that many people have the kind of resolve to carry a project through and actually complete it.