Murder Mansion

Erick1294 wrote:

Murder Mansion has been one of my favorite games on Byond, and I feel that the attention it's getting recently is very well deserved.

This thread is merely to show my appreciation to the game and to list a few suggestions I believe would make the game better for new users.

Just for starters, I'm glad you like the game, and even moreso that you like it enough to want to help improve it! Thanks!

The first suggestions come from that base, and they are as follows:
Murder Mansion should get its own lobby for making the games right after the main screen, leaving the players the option to configure their characters before joining the round, and leaving enough time for the host to choose a round in tranquility (as well as to ask around what the players want) as the others talk themselves out. Murder Mansion is slightly unfriendly with the chat system, since from the main screen you can never be sure that the ghosts in-game from inside the map can listen to you, and having a lobby system would allow for players to chat freely while outside of the game and dead, with the option to leave aside whatever is happening in-game. It's true that it allows more kinds of cheating on the game, but for a group of friends sharing Skype/Messenger accounts, that's already a given that they can do so with much more ease. Another good reason for enhancing the game chat is that players tend to stay on the games such as these to chat around and have fun with the other online characters already logged in when they get tired of playing the game itself. As it is now, players often get too tired of waiting for a round to finish and they go AFK, more often than not leaving the game without players for a good while after it's finished. A whispering system and more interactions for the lobby could also be of great help (such as buzzing people, sharing things, etc.). There could also be a description form for the host to explain what kind of setting he's aiming to implement on the game, whether or not it's casual or serious, slow and heavily roleplayed; whether it's set as a pacific or unique game with its own story (such as for special modes), or following along with the default one from the game.

I guess I don't speak for the players, but I've always thought of the title screen as filling this sort of "lobby" role. No, there are no controls there to set anything up, but I always just assumed that players would use this location as a place to discuss what the next map and/or round should be, who should start it ("do we have any BYOND Members or MM subscribers on here? go ahead and start for us!"), etc.

Maybe I need to reinforce that intention? Maybe players don't realize that they can "hang out" on the title screen and chat with each other (including any ghosts on the current map)?

I also do not think I want to have controls at that point to set anything up (map selection, round selection, character creation, etc.) I like the "flow" of the game as it currently is (especially with character creation coming at the start of every round; it allows players to select their room based on the current map and mode; some rooms are "better" than others, and the players can use this strategy on a per-round and per-map basis) The game "remembers" everything you selected at your first character set-up, so for every round after that, you can just hit "Enter, Enter, Enter, etc" to automatically use the same settings from the previous round.

Also, with MM now being on a more-or-less permanent server, there technically is never a "host". So, then, how do I assign that role to anyone? The first player who logs in after the game has been empty? I think that the current "anyone joined can click the title screen button to select a map, and nominate themselves as the "host" for that round" system is the best solution. It also allows for anyone in the game to have a chance to grab the reigns.

Of course, it requires a certain level of cooperation, and I'm sure there are people who just immediately click that button as soon as they can, just to always remain in control... I suppose I'd just rather leave that argument up to the players to hash out on their own, though. If you've got a jerk on the server that keeps hogging control, try to talk sense into him, and if that fails, just vote to boot him. That kind of thing. (well, now that the voting will work again, anyway...lol)

I believe that the chat box should be refixed with a slithly smaller text and have the ghost messages removed to allow for more text input from the players; instead, adding another color for ghost players' messages or a different box altoghether for them. The clues tend to cluster the chat when you've examined too many things during a round, for example, and that could help. [Editor's note: I moved this paragraph up here, because I think these two are related, and I want to address them together.]

I definitely agree that MM is lacking in the socialization department. I guess that's just my own personality showing through. I'm very introverted, so socialization is something I don't value too highly (odd in an online game environment, huh?), and so, I didn't give it much more thought than "let's let ghost players talk to each other"

But even that system is not fully functional (this update actually improved it a bit, but perhaps still not enough?)

I really like the idea of splitting the text output up into different "panes". I actually considered doing so for the big update, but messing with the skin editor is my very least knowledgeable/experienced area of BYOND development (I used it exactly once, right after they first implemented it, to create the MM interface and I haven't touched it since), and rather than spend a week trying to figure it out (and potentially wrecking the fragile interface that I originally managed to scrape together), I pushed that idea down/off the list. But, I still think it's a great idea, so maybe I'll put a little more effort into learning the skin editor.

Perhaps I should break it up into three separate areas? One for game-text (intros, rules, announcements, etc.), one for in-game communication, and a third for "OOC"/ghost communication?

I also think that if I do it this way, I'll put the game-text area along the left side, map in the middle, and communication outputs along the right? I like that this could center the map.

Perhaps, though, that would get too cluttered, especially on lower resolutions/smaller screens? I guess these days, though, that shouldn't be a major concern. Not many people are still stuck on 800x600 CRT monitors or anything like that...

Another good suggestion I think it's worth noting is balancing the functionality of the crontrols a bit more like it was on the very first versions of the game (it was faster). I do like the new system, but it has its flaws nonetheless. Players tend to get confused with the new system of having to click too many arrows (often from 3 to 5, or more if you click one too many) to get to the item they desire. Instead, to my opinion, it would be better if you could change from interaction options with the numbers of the keyboard, or alternatively, get a little inventory to be able to look at everything you're holding. This allows the user to be able to select things fast enough to defend themselves without having to memorize the place where they left their second revolver that's still holding bullets on the deepest spot of their back pockets.

I guess it's from repeated use/practice, but I've never had a problem with the current item selection controls. It shouldn't be too hard to implement number-key selection shortcuts, though.

But in a sense, shouldn't it be difficult to pull out that second revolver in the deepest spot of your back pockets if you're under attack? Obviously, the game is not exactly focused on realism, so this doesn't really apply, but I think it makes kind of sense that you've got that little bit of fumbling around to deal with. Plus, perhaps it might force people to keep their weapons ready? Sure, it looks suspicious, but isn't that the trade-off?

But anyway, I can probably add in a number-key shortcut system.

I also had the idea (inspired by this post), that maybe I should put a shadowed copy of the previous and next items under/behind the arrows? (and perhaps first and last items under the double arrows?) That way, at least, people will have a little "preview" of what they'll get when they hit the arrow?

Though, unsure if it's a feature or not on the classic game mode, the phone, as of currently, states whoever is alive on the game at a given time, making it imposible to vote for a dead person. However, this can be used as a means for the normal player to cheat and know who's yet alive playing the game, narrowing down his options as to who's the killer. I suggest that the phone should allow for players to vote for dead characters; after all, how can they be sure that they're actually dead if they haven't seen any proof of the matter. The person on the other end of the line couldn't know unless they were running some kind of sick experiment either. Hehehe... Regardless, it would make players hold less grudges of tagging with others for their own safety (since waiting would no longer be a viable option) and balance more the job of the choosen killer on many ways, making him more unpredictable (for example, he would no longer have the priority to cut the phone line on the last 5 minutes of the game and have people waiting for him there).

This is merely a design oversight. Essentially a bug. I did not intend for the phone to give this sort of "hint" at who was left, that's just how I mistakenly programmed it (it lets you pick from the list of active players, though it should list everyone)

But, funny you should mention this: "The person on the other end of the line couldn't know unless they were running some kind of sick experiment either"

In the other modes, using the phone sort of implies this to be the case... Does that only apply to the other game modes? Or does it also apply to Classic? lol Is it all just some sick game, overseen by some sinister force?

I actually played up this joke a bit with the current uppdate. There's a subscriber-only map that resembles a large facility (with access to spawners of every item in the game) with a large open "arena" type area in the center. On the roof is a small "control room" with rows of computers, phones, and security monitors lining the walls...lol

I feel as if I'm not the only person thinking with similar opinions from what I had discussed in the past and I didn't see a proper place to put those thoughts into. Nevertheless, I apologize in advance if I made this post too big (even for my own tastes), or if it somehow feels insulting or discouraging for the reader on what I explained above.

Don't feel bad for making too long of a post. As you can see, I tend to get very wordy... Also, don't feel bad for offering constructive criticism and suggestions. It doesn't upset me.

And to anyone else reading this, please feel free to jump in with whatever feedback/input/whatever you've got!

I think those changes are brilliant. If there's a difference between the OOC and the IC, the extra text of the ghost messages can also be removed, and that generally leaves out more space. It also makes everything a bit easier to follow with the eyes.

Maybe both players and ghosts could share the same OOC on some modes. Though, it would have to be completely restricted for players on modes such as classic, where they could easily tell each other miles away on what's happening (and actually, on any mode I can think of that includes perma-death :c).

What I fear of the idea of dividing the boxes is that the game might get cramped with them and make almost no room for the text output (not to mention the map itself), just like you're suggesting, and maybe a solution for that could be using tabs to show up the different panes (marking with a color or an asterisk whenever there are new messages), like I've seen on other games. You'd just click the tab and the chatbox would change from one to another (namely from OOC to IC, or even the system messages). It all could be optional for players with lower resolutions.

And hey, if it's not too complicated, maybe the game could get some more customization on the chatbox, such as being able to change the colors of the text output of what we say, it works for other games. Though, I'm not sure whether you like the idea of having a setup button or settings screen, since having so many options as I'm suggesting will ultimately end up filling the entire hud with buttons.

I'm glad to hear that it's being worked out. Maybe this isn't your aim, but here's another idea as an alternative to tabbing :

(taken from Eternia and censoring anything that might complain for it)
Using square brackets to tell the difference between messages with some colors for the eye to catch quick (white=OOC; Dark-Grey=Announcements; Different-Color=IC); suggesting that, instead of (You), you might get (IC) or (OOC), for example.

Another thought that raised on the matter of tabbing is that, while the announcements are important, the IC and OOC are mostly what players will be looking at during the game, so they're the two most likely to be acting together, making players need to click on tabs to switch them often. Maybe, to fix this issue, a good idea could be either using the above alternative or tabbing the announcements and OOC together instead (or maybe all three of them together?). There's no way to know for sure which will work better until tested, though.

But then again, doesn't this fall back on the, "they could do that through outside IM's, anyway" rationale?

It does fall on that sentence, but it's not like cheating should be made easier for the players. lol It's more like, "Players could do it if they wanted to, anyway". And it didn't make much sense when I said it earlier whatsoever; it actually meant about players sharing roles with each other through OOC, or forming teams (all things that should be better done through IC), so I guess that's a bad logic to follow on this context. I think that players sharing OOC's with each other while playing Classic mode could ruin it, but for modes such as Deathmatch or Escape, it's much better than having to scream everything you want another person to know.

I've been messing with this a lot more, and I've also been discussing it over on the main BYOND "Design Philosophy" forum (for anyone here who doesn't check the BYOND forums):

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