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ID:135551

Jun 22 2004, 2:32 pm

Kujila

HEY BYOND FOLKS!

I am tired of getting tons of messages about “Oh no! The BYOND staff deleted my MM game because they said it was a rip!” messages nearly half-a-month after I e-mailed the BYOND staff about it.

Here:

If for some reason you still won’t allow these folks to have their games, why? I’ve given permission. I’ve e-mailed Dantom. I’ve taken the time to make this post.

You could’ve just replied and explained why they can’t have them, or something, rather than just not-replying. This user told me he received a response shortly after he e-mailed:

----: I emailed them like 3 pages and they emailed
----: Your entry is a rip. -Byond Staff
Me: I guess I'll make a forum post

I didn’t want to take this to the forums in the first place, for I felt e-mail would be the appropriate place to address this, but the e-mail support is far lacking, or at least it seems to be.

Thank you for your time, :)

~Kujila

Jun 22 2004, 2:35 pm
OneFishDown	I don't think emails sent to that email address get read. All I get is a crappy auto-reply that says to use the support page.

Jun 22 2004, 2:36 pm In response to OneFishDown
Kujila	Well, whatever the problem, I hope this can be resolved. ~Kujila

Jun 22 2004, 3:03 pm
Jotdaniel	Wasn't your MM game a zeta rip in the first place?

Jun 22 2004, 3:27 pm In response to Jotdaniel
Kujila	Yes, Mr. Oh-Look-At-Me-I-Can-Point-Out-Obvious-Facts, it was. No soup for you. :P ~Kujila

Jun 22 2004, 3:33 pm In response to Kujila
Jotdaniel	The point of pointing out the obvious facts is that in the line of progression its still a rip from a source that rips are not allowed from. Get my drift?

Jun 22 2004, 3:38 pm In response to Jotdaniel
Kujila	Well mine is still there and has been since 5/26/02 :D ~Kujila

Jun 22 2004, 3:47 pm

DarkView

Ok. I checked out Majins and Mystics.
A) You've got a "BUY POWER" verb in there. You know perfectly well that is against hub rules.
B) The game is obviously a DBZeta game. It's been established as one of the major ones so it'll probably be allowed to stay up (as long as it doesn't break the other rules). That doesn't give you the right to distribute it as your own game.

Also on an unrelated note, if you don't intend on doing anything with those entries that don't have download links could you please delete them. It's hard enough to find anything DBZ on the hub that isn't a rip, it doesn't help when the hub also has a million and one empty DBZ entries.

Jun 22 2004, 4:36 pm

In response to DarkView

Kujila

Apparantly you didn't read my post.

This isn't about my hub entries. For godsakes, whenever a staff member see's the words "Dragon Ball Z" or "Zeta" they freak out and go into "OMG.NO.OMG.NO" mode.

That doesn't give you the right to distribute it as your own game.

I'm not. They are.

You know what? I don't care. Do whatever you like. They aren't my users, they're yours. I just keep getting AIMed about it. :D

~Kujila

Jun 22 2004, 5:07 pm In response to Kujila
Goku72	Kujila wrote: I just keep getting AIMed about it. :D That's why you can ignore them. =P

Jun 22 2004, 5:35 pm In response to Kujila
Foomer	I suspect some of the hub moderators are a bit overzealous when it comes to determining what they should and shouldn't deleted. But really, if these people are so despirate to get their games listed, someone should put together a site where they can list their games for people to connect to. I hate how everyone is so reliant on the BYOND hub.

Jun 23 2004, 5:13 am

In response to Kujila

Loduwijk

Kujila wrote:

Apparantly you didn't read my post.

Apparantly he did read your post, otherwise there would not be a reply made by him.

This isn't about my hub entries. For godsakes, whenever a staff member see's the words "Dragon Ball Z" or "Zeta" they freak out and go into "OMG.NO.OMG.NO" mode.

It is about "your" game, and he wasn't going into "omg no omg no" mode, he was simply stating facts about rules you were either breaking or coming close to breaking. You are the one freaking out, calm down.

I do believe it should have been apparent that he wasn't addressing your concern directly, but rather pointing out other errors. Whether it is what you wanted to hear or not, it is something you should think about.

I'm not. They are.

You said in your post that you did and still would.

You know what? I don't care. Do whatever you like. They aren't my users, they're yours. I just keep getting AIMed about it. :D

That is a poor attitude, it is attitudes like that which ruin the place and give moderators a difficult time cleaning it up.

Jun 23 2004, 5:17 am
Lummox JR	E-mailing [email protected] does not contact the BYOND Staff. The correct route is to use the form at http://www.byond.com/support which does the actual notifying. So you thought you'd contacted the hub moderators, but you didn't bother to follow up. Lummox JR

Jun 23 2004, 5:34 am

In response to Kujila

Lummox JR

Kujila wrote:

Apparantly you didn't read my post.

DarkView's point is that your post is moot. If your own hub entry is a Zeta rip, then whether you gave permission or not, any games using it as a codebase are gonna be rips twice over.

That doesn't give you the right to distribute it as your own game.

I'm not. They are.

This doesn't follow. If someone ripped your game and you're giving permission after the fact, then this is sanctioned distribution by you. If you gave out the source code yourself, then you are in fact distributing it directly.

You know what? I don't care. Do whatever you like. They aren't my users, they're yours. I just keep getting AIMed about it. :D

Seems to me you made this bed yourself. You're the one who sanctioned these rips, and now they're looking to you.

You know how every week and a half someone posts how they're sick and tired of "all these Zeta rips" cluttering up the hub? This is part of that problem. As much as some people have complained about that, they freak out when their own rip falls under the ax. Every time a rip is deleted or suppressed we get a message saying that it's not technically a rip for 6 different irrelevant reasons, so-and-so gave me permission to do this, and why don't you guys go pick on all those other rips first? Because every other rip has the exact same story to tell, that's why.

Lummox JR

Jun 23 2004, 5:40 am

In response to Kujila

Lummox JR

Kujila wrote:

Well mine is still there and has been since 5/26/02 :D

Since apparently no one is bothering to actually read the announcements, I'll quote a snippet of [link].

Concerning rips: So far most rips that didn't charge anything have not been touched. A lot of rip-based games have become "established" somewhat, but newer ripping--especially of newer games--is going to be more strongly frowned upon. Existing rips are strongly encouraged to removed ripped material; many authors have already done this, to their credit.

In other words, this is an established rip, but is encouraged to remove the ripped material. At least until then, newer rips based on it--however sanctioned by the previous ripper--aren't going to be tolerated at all.

Lummox JR

Jun 23 2004, 5:56 am

Kujila

Erase the rips, remove the rips, put on a flower skirt and dance around the rips: I DON'T CARE ANYMORE.

Nothing I say will have any effect any ways.

Feel free to lose this topic. It's finished.

> >> >That doesn't give you the right to distribute it as your own game.

I'm not. They are.

This doesn't follow. If someone ripped your game and you're giving permission after the fact, then this is sanctioned distribution by you. If you gave out the source code yourself, then you are in fact distributing it directly.

I'm not distributing the source code for their games, nor am I affiliated with them. I just don't give a rat's you-know-what if they rip it, modify it, or change the name to "OH WOW WHAT A COOL RIP SSJ2 version!!11"

Here is one of the original letters I was forwarded by a user:

"You were told that a non-rip would be welcome on the hub, but your game reappeared only 2 days later with the same name. You did not have enough time to remove ripped material from your game.

Furthermore, you should have contacted us, and had Kujila contact us, to straighten out the name issue. When you reposted the game without telling us of this change, what did you expect us to think?

The game cannot be reposted in its current form, because it is still a rip."

See the part where it says "Kujila contact us" yada-yada-yada? That's what I'm trying to do.

So much for simple resolutions... <:)

~Kujila

Jun 23 2004, 6:09 am

In response to Kujila

Lummox JR

Kujila wrote:

This doesn't follow. If someone ripped your game and you're giving permission after the fact, then this is sanctioned distribution by you. If you gave out the source code yourself, then you are in fact distributing it directly.

I'm not distributing the source code for their games, nor am I affiliated with them. I just don't give a rat's you-know-what if they rip it, modify it, or change the name to "OH WOW WHAT A COOL RIP SSJ2 version!!11"

Nobody said you were distributing their games; the subject was your own. And if you give rips of your own game your blessing, essentially distributing it is what you're doing.

Here is one of the original letters I was forwarded by a user:

"You were told that a non-rip would be welcome on the hub, but your game reappeared only 2 days later with the same name. You did not have enough time to remove ripped material from your game.

"Furthermore, you should have contacted us, and had Kujila contact us, to straighten out the name issue. When you reposted the game without telling us of this change, what did you expect us to think?

"The game cannot be reposted in its current form, because it is still a rip."

See the part where it says "Kujila contact us" yada-yada-yada? That's what I'm trying to do.

You sent an e-mail and never followed up on it, even to read the form reply telling you the link to the support page. Now in this case, the ripper was only told to get you to contact the staff because no one had any clue that you were sanctioning one rip, let alone multiple rips, and it wasn't well known at the time that your game was itself a rip and hence your permission meant squat. It looked at first rather like the new rip was actually intended to be a mere sequel to your game, not a rip at all, which would have been allowed with your consent.

So much for simple resolutions... <:)

Seems pretty simple to me. Stop telling people they can make their own copies of your rip, and they'll stop hassling you when their hub entries go bye-bye.

If nothing else you've managed to clear up this whole situation remarkably. It's now entirely clear what the deal is with all those M&M games popping up. This will save everyone concerned a great deal of time in the future.

Lummox JR

Jun 23 2004, 1:10 pm In response to Goku72
DarkView	Goku72 wrote: That's why you can ignore them. =P I'll actually side with Kujila here. For some people it's just not that simple to ignore/block people from AIM/MSN/Yahoo/ICQ/Pager. Plus he probably does talk to them normally.