This might sound sad, but after making this post: http://members.byond.com/?command=view_post&post=23548 which isn't too long, I've pretty much come to the conclusion that the Ranking system is way too depressing, and would request that there was an option for us in our game hub details to cop out of the Ranking System, to basically cancel anyone with the game in their favourites and get rid of its Rank number.
This isn't anything to do with how bad it is or anything, I think the system is pretty much fine, it does the job that its meant to do, that's also why I find it so depressing though. It'd be nice if we can save ourselves from petty tactics if we can opt out of the system.
I know this is unlikely, I'm mostly in a bad mood and want to whine, but maybe people feel the same.
ID:134295
 Nov 28 2006, 9:20 pm
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:[ If you ask me, the ranking system is more of a joke than anything else.
I've played some of the top ranked games, and... Some of them, which I wont mention by name are god damn terrible. They are full of horribly obvious and even game breaking bugs, there is very little actual content in them and in general they are just poorly made and not fun games at all. On top of that they are a pretty poor representation of what BYOND is and what it is capable of. What makes it even better is if you go down the list to something like rank 100-200, some of the games around there are actually decently made and fun games to play. But since they don't rank very high they are likely to attract less players than they should be. But it gets even better! Since some of the high ranking games are terrible it is going to give people the impression that if these high ranking, supposedly some of the "best" games made with BYOND are so horrid then what about a game that is at rank 100? Surely it is going to be EVEN worse? I think it is pretty obvious about what sort of games I am talking about, hell there is 3 of them in the top 10 :[ I'd seriously suggest something be done about the ranking system, even if it is just letting people choose whether their game is or isn't ranked. | |
Acebloke wrote:
I know this is unlikely It's not unlikely- the ability to opt your hub entry out from the rankings is a good idea. What is isn't neccessary is removing it from people's top favourite games list; people should be able to add it to their favourite list if they want (to show appreciation, support- all the things developers like from their fans!), but just have the hub entry itself not show it's rank or show up on the top ranked games section. | |
There are some plans to revamp the ranking system and make it tied more intimately with members themselves and less intimately with the hub as a whole. This would give the best of both worlds: hub entries wouldn't display ranks, and people who cared about ranks would still be able to use them.
I'll hold off on describing more unless the official devs want to take a crack at explaining the plan in place. | |
Elation wrote:
Acebloke wrote: Yes it is unlikely, because no it is not a good idea. It sounds like a good idea at first blush, giving more control to the author, but really all it does is screw up the game's integration into the community. If anything this means the ranking system will be more polluted with games that don't belong there. What is isn't neccessary is removing it from people's top favourite games list; people should be able to add it to their favourite list if they want (to show appreciation, support- all the things developers like from their fans!), but just have the hub entry itself not show it's rank or show up on the top ranked games section. It might make sense to allow the hub entry not to show its rank, but it should still appear in the rankings list overall. Lummox JR | |
Lummox JR wrote:
Yes it is unlikely, because no it is not a good idea. It sounds like a good idea at first blush, giving more control to the author, but really all it does is screw up the game's integration into the community. If anything this means the ranking system will be more polluted with games that don't belong there. Uh, doesn't hiding a hub entry cause exactly the same problem? When DBZ:relegr8 hit first and I hid it, LRS, Seika and the others would then have taken up places they didn't 'deserve'. I think if people want to opt the hub entry out of the ranking system they should have the choice, although in Acebloke's situation where he'd rather his game had no rank than a low rank, I think that's pretty vain. =P | |
Lummox JR wrote:
Elation wrote: The ranking system does not integrate it more with the community, if anything, it allows people to see the number 49 for instance, and come to the conclusion that there's 48 better games on BYOND. Yes, it doesn't mean that, and Yes, the system is going to be improved, but not everyone sees it as the way it is planned, you forget that the average intelligence of the main BYOND players isn't exactly Mensa. The opt out should be considered because the system already is polluted, and some of us would prefer not to be part of it. BYOND worked perfectly fine without it, and it can perfectly work fine with an opt out. As a person who develops BYOND games as quite a large part of my life, sad as it sounds, it is extremely hard to not compare my games that are low ranked (Not so much about Wargames now but my others) with those who are high ranked, and wonder just why the gap is so large. Now, obviously there are things to improve games to increase its playability and its support, but because the ranking system is basically BYOND members, in a game like Wargames where a portion of the players come from outside BYOND originally, and quite a lot of young teens who simply don't have money to spend, roughly 95% of my players are non-BYOND-members, perhaps more. The main reason why I dislike it though is because I'm starting to believe that its effecting my will to continue developing, I've never been the best on BYOND, and a lot of my games still need vast improvements, but the ranking system for me has got to the point where its impossible to compare games without looking at that damn ranking number. After this game I'm hosting is finished, I'm pretty much prepared to keep deleting the hub every time someone ranks it, its got that far for me. | |
Acebloke wrote:
The main reason why I dislike it though is because I'm starting to believe that its effecting my will to continue developing, I've never been the best on BYOND, and a lot of my games still need vast improvements, but the ranking system for me has got to the point where its impossible to compare games without looking at that damn ranking number. I'm sorry for this. I have to admit that I did not consider it when thinking through the positives and negatives of the ranking system. My feeling has always been, if you don't like the ranking system, just ignore the numbers. In practice, that might be easier said than done, since developers put countless hours into making their games and obviously are going to pay attention to where they stand among their peers. I am quite certain, though, that the ranks aren't skewed any because we are only taking samples from BYOND Members. I think it is more a reflection of the community, which, at the time-being (and for some time now) is comprised primarily of anime fan-gamers. Getting these players to try your game, not to mention rank it, can be quite the chore. My stock answer to all of this is that we hope that guild categories will alleviate the problem. If the ranked games are restricted to a guild-specific subset, your standing will be measured only against your legitimate competitors, and not warped by the masses of unrelated games and their fans. I think the interpretation then will be much more valuable (as well as reassuring). We're doing our best to make these guilds happen. Until then, try not to make too much of the numbers. And definitely don't get depressed over them. Getting depressed about BYOND is my job :) | |
I still would rather not have any rank on any game of mine on my other key i don't like it i think the numbers drive people away "omg that games rank is 678 im not playing it, it must be shoot".
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i think people are forgetting that the ranking system reflects the popularity of games, not how good they are.
as Tom mentions, the guild-system - when completed - should fix up this misconception by grouping games by their genre or their peers. so it's probably best to be patient for a bit longer. | |
Problem is, even if you put in big red letters, right above any rank numbers, that ranks are a measurement of popularity, not quality, people would still assume it meant quality.
I am split on feeling on this. I am not sure I want people who so easily confuse popularity and quality in my games, but I can't speak for everyone. | |
Yuugi wrote:
:[ If you ask me, the ranking system is more of a joke than anything else. That's why no one asked you. He's asking for a feature here, not your opinion on the ranking system. | |
I second this.
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Danial.Beta wrote:
Problem is, even if you put in big red letters, right above any rank numbers, that ranks are a measurement of popularity, not quality, people would still assume it meant quality. Frankly I find that impossible to believe. While people will certainly connect quality as an aspect of the rating system, they'll never believe whole-hog that it's a measure of quality alone. Such things are highly subjective, after all. How much music do you like in the top 40? Do you like hearing about Paris Hilton every second of the day? If a movie grosses in the top spot at the box office, does that mean you must see it? All those sorts of things are ranked, too, and people don't assume quality is the true measure there, either. I am split on feeling on this. I am not sure I want people who so easily confuse popularity and quality in my games, but I can't speak for everyone. You have nothing to worry about, since such people don't exist. Even people without any shred of common sense know that high rank does not equal high quality; it is merely a possible indicator, nothing more. Lummox JR | |
Lummox JR wrote:
Even people without any shred of common sense know that high rank does not equal high quality; it is merely a possible indicator, nothing more. Then you must not have met any NBotLS fans. | |
I'm with Airjoe, the thing is, quality can be very easily assessed with popularity, the logical thing is that popular games are better quality. Yet, the whole Naruto Shinobi thing teaches us that:
a) Its better for us to make horribly coded games b) Its better for us to rule the game with an iron fist c) Its better for us to destroy anyone who likes another BYOND game as much as our own Now, if that is supporting the community, I'd like to see you explain it. I wished there was some way of explaining to you too that not everyone on BYOND has as much brains as you do :P Having no rank means people could look at it and go "Hey, that game doesn't have a rank, yet lots of people are on it, I wonder what its like?" | |
Acebloke wrote:
Yet, the whole Naruto Shinobi thing teaches us that: Weren't you one of the people on my case when I pointed out many of the same things a couple weeks ago? | |
No it was different, this is more about trying to get an opt out because some of us don't want to get involved in these sorts of things.
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Acebloke wrote:
Yet, the whole Naruto Shinobi thing teaches us that: if it teaches you that, then there is something wrong with the education system in your area. you must be on crack to think that it's better to make horribly coded games. and only power-hungry adolescents with few, if any, friends use weak and useless threats in order to gain attention and control. eventually these kids will grow up to be managers of your local McDonalds/Burger King (and may the gods take pity on us when they do). they are not worth wasting your time over. that whole Naruto nonsense taught us that the a very small group of idiots chose to threaten people to rank their game as more popular than the rest. and what is even more annoying is that there were gullible kids who played along with the scheme. in the scope of the community as a whole, this was/is a brief "flash in the pan", as proven by its inability to stay at number 1. LRS, DMO, and Ultimatum are far richer games, and deserve their popularity ranking as well as respect for the quality of those games. again, better to ignore the rankings altogether since it will be replaced soon enough with the guild system. the suggestion has been made, so no real point in letting this thread continue to go off topic. thread closed. | |
Say my game has a rank of 50030 people might not play it because of the rank shown on the hub.