UPnP Support

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Jul 21 2014, 8:16 am
I suspect that in the future (if this isn't the case already) routers will disable UPnP by default due to the same kind of concerns that led to the widespread institution of firewalls and security protocols. I know that my last two routers have had this off by default. Maybe in 2006 this wasn't the case.

That said, there are other superior options to avoid port-forwarding, considering that our design already has games connecting to the hub. We probably could implement a hole punching setup using the hub for the initial relay (a persistent proxy is obviously not realistic and would be inefficient anyway). I will be honest and say it is not high on the priority list though because, frankly, it's a lot of work and I don't think it's that important.
Jul 21 2014, 12:27 pm
In response to Tom
Tom wrote:
I suspect that in the future (if this isn't the case already) routers will disable UPnP by default due to the same kind of concerns that led to the widespread institution of firewalls and security protocols. I know that my last two routers have had this off by default. Maybe in 2006 this wasn't the case.

What routers are you buying? Cheap ones?


That said, there are other superior options to avoid port-forwarding, considering that our design already has games connecting to the hub. We probably could implement a hole punching setup using the hub for the initial relay (a persistent proxy is obviously not realistic and would be inefficient anyway). I will be honest and say it is not high on the priority list though because, frankly, it's a lot of work and I don't think it's that important.

Hah saw that coming, why couldn't you of just replied you know 2,4 years ago?

Jul 21 2014, 12:57 pm
Classy.
Jul 21 2014, 2:35 pm
Tom wrote:
frankly, it's a lot of work and I don't think it's that important.

99.99% of this forum category.
Jul 22 2014, 10:55 pm
Come oooon Tom!! You guys could add that. IT IS actually important for us. I RE-BUMP!
Jul 23 2014, 6:47 am
I guess I just don't understand the importance. UPnP is only relevant for people who 1) have their routers configured to allow it, which many don't, 2) can't figure out port forwarding, and/or 3) like to change ports a lot.

To me it doesn't seem like people are going to switch around ports a lot, and anyway BYOND has a config setting that lets you specify a list of port choices. Port forwarding is downright trivial to figure out, and anyone who'd have trouble with it would probably also have to deal with the other UPnP issues: routers not configured for it, and software firewalls blocking the ports needed for UPnP to function.

As Tom said though there are other options beyond UPnP that don't carry the same security risk. I wouldn't mind looking into those at some point, but the priority is rather low because workarounds are so readily available.
Jul 23 2014, 12:57 pm
It's definitely #2. Without a doubt. That's the main issue. If people could set themselves up in a more simple manner, there would be less crying about "help me learn how to portforward!" Honestly, setting up portforwarding isn't hard. That is, once you've come to understand how it works. But, that's how all things are. Sadly, it took me 2 years to actually come to understanding how it worked. I learned how it worked in 2008. The main issue is having a static IP. That's something that I never understood at the time and also something that porforward.com always seemed to explain wrongfully for me.

UPnP isn't neeeded for BYOND. In fact, no other feature requests are needed. BYOND is perfectly fine the way it is. It is build for 2D, right? Meaning we don't need isometrics and all the other mumbojumbo. At this point, it's what we want to make the experience better. A lot of people want to host. However, they can't. Why? Because they lack the knowledge, or, as #1 says, they lack the capability, to actually portforward. Regardless, people are able to disable UPnP whenever.

It seems like a more simple route. It's something that's been wanted for quite a while now for the people who can't afford hosting services but want to enjoy a quick game with friends (because I sure as hell get a lot of requests like this that I just simply can't fulfill). I'm talking about the kids that want to play a simple board game on BYOND. Yeah, that's about 5 a day. This has been going on for a little over a year. I have records of a lot of those requests. So, without a doubt, there are a lot of people who would love to see this feature. Even though the majority of them are never on the forums.
Jul 24 2014, 2:50 am
Actually, most routers in the Netherlands are set up to allow for UPnP.. I can't really tell if it works, though.
Jul 24 2014, 5:11 am
Just theoretical, I never done it and wouldn't want to go in the wrong direction, but can you make use of the UPnP via some C++ and a .dll you incorporate in BYOND? (Thinking outloud)
Jul 24 2014, 7:21 am
Basically implement all three of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ Internet_Gateway_Device_Protocol http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NAT_Port_Mapping_Protocol and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Port_Control_Protocol in a DLL, taking the intended host port from the BYOND world, and perform the knock on the router.

Jul 24 2014, 7:54 am
Thought so.
Jul 24 2014, 1:00 pm
You could make a DLL sure but not everyone has that knowledge do they?
Jul 24 2014, 1:03 pm
Not at all but if I decide to create one, for whatever reason, I'll be more than happy to share it with you @A.T.H.K
Jul 24 2014, 1:05 pm
I've never made a DLL a day in my life.
Jul 24 2014, 1:33 pm
I made a few but I'm caught in in making a Hotel Suite in C# for a hotel.
Jul 24 2014, 1:46 pm
In response to Ssj4justdale
Ssj4justdale wrote:
Not at all but if I decide to create one, for whatever reason, I'll be more than happy to share it with you @A.T.H.K

Thanks, I appreciate what you've done for the community so far with your encryption DLL.

In all honesty though its kind of not the point, it should be a native.

You whipped that encryption DLL up pretty damn fast and if you decide to do this, you'll probably do it at the same pace (I don't know whats involved I'll just assume here), so if you can do it in say a what? a day or less, why does it take BYOND so long to do the same?

I understand they have other things going on too.. But the pace they push out updates/bug fixes and general features is slow going and it's a shame that a one man band can beat them too it must be a bit embarrassing.

Perhaps they should hire you @Ssj4justdale ...
Jul 24 2014, 1:52 pm
Writing a quick DLL to do something and implementing a brand new feature into a massive codebase are entirely different things. Keep in mind, the DLL we're talking about here wouldn't be something you'd whip up in a day, or a week, it would be a massive library, and it would require quite a decent level of knowledge on networking to even get started on.
Dec 12 2015, 1:42 pm
I'm gonna go ahead and BUMP this.


This wasn't done because of fear that upnp would stop being enabled for security reasons, but that hasn't panned out.

The routers given out by comcast and centurylink in my area both have upnp support enabled by default.

Most consumer routers sold have this enabled by default.

I do home and small office networking for a company, and I rarely see routers that don't have upnp enabled.

It would save the 5 million port forward threads we get in byond help, it would solve the issue with routers that don't support dhcp reservations (because yes, some routers don't have this feature but do have upnp)

and it's a relatively simple addition.
Dec 12 2015, 3:56 pm
Dec 12 2015, 4:07 pm
I would need low-level info on this for both Windows and Linux. .NET and C# solutions are out of the question.
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