digitalmouse wrote:

I think you could safely discount 90% of the 'many thousands of BYOND Windows users' as serious testers, since that 90% doesn't actively participate in debugging the Windows version unless it affects the game play of <insert Anime game here>.

And when they do, it's a crap-shoot as to whether you get *any* useful testing info out of them beyond 'muh game dunt wrk no mre - fix it!'

I think that in general the Linux crowd do have more smarts and more understanding of technical details, yes, plus they tend to be more intelligent and more serious developers. I think this is directly related to how arcane the interface is. Back in the day, DOS was king and to be an effective DOS user you really had to understand your PC, while Macs were marketed to the "Just make it work quick" crowd. (On the other hand, Macs have also attracted a lot more developers of creative content like pixel art.)

Then again, penguin-thumpers tend to be a bit more demanding ("open source now!") and I've occasionally seen some do downright bonehead moves, like shouting a security exploit to the world before giving the developers a chance to fix it. Chances are if a Linux version existed, the pace of fixes and upgrades for it would be slower than for the Windows version and far slower than many would have the patience for.

I suspect we've deleted more useless Bug Reports posts than sum total of useful ones. That should bring the number of useful BYOND Windows testing users down to a hundred or so, at best. Which makes the difference not so great between available Windows and *nix testers, in my opinion.

I still think the difference is rather large, but I'll readily agree that for a lot of reasons (age being one) a lot of our community just haven't been useful in that area.

But this is all rather moot- until we can get dedicated *nix or Mac OSX developers on board (or start paying the current ones more to get into those platforms), we shall just have to wait.

If I was making like twice as much money and had a 'nix computer to test on, and other projects didn't demand more attention, I'd happily develop a Linux/OSX version. Well not happily, because I hate hate hate working with Linux and I feel about Macs the way most people feel about cockroaches, but for the right price I wouldn't mind.

Lummox JR

I have a question, maybe this is common knowledge and its a stupid question but here it goes anyway.

How is BYOND paid for and such?

I mean, my understanding was that BYOND was a tool created to help people make online games (like MUDs or simple RPGs) and get them "out there" easily than trying to do it all yourself, since BYOND offers you a platform thats already somewhat complete you just arrange all the elements into the game you want to make. You dont need to create the basics from scratch (like netcode and whatever).

I thought BYOND was kinda like most games on BYOND itself, something that the developers want to do and achieve. To help offset the costs of all the time, and tools and resources they (BYONDS owners?) have advertisements on their website, and also offer the membership.

Is this right? Or am i completley wrong? XD

I am not totally sure how many coders (and staff in general) work on BYOND, ive only seen one or two names floating around the forums. If it really is just those few people then i can see why a version for OSX would be pretty impossible to do.

I guess the only way BYOND can ever hope to "expand" into things like this is if the staff does, and that means more money. Perhaps BYOND could consider offering some more packages for developers? Like membership only higher cost and extra tools for game makers?

I know one thing id pay for, and that would be if BYOND built-in saving to their servers. So save files were protected but not linked to 1 server. You could give the account holder some tools to wipe the space if needed ect.

UnknownDuelist wrote:

I have a question, maybe this is common knowledge and its a stupid question but here it goes anyway.

How is BYOND paid for and such?

I mean, my understanding was that BYOND was a tool created to help people make online games (like MUDs or simple RPGs) and get them "out there" easily than trying to do it all yourself, since BYOND offers you a platform thats already somewhat complete you just arrange all the elements into the game you want to make. You dont need to create the basics from scratch (like netcode and whatever).

I thought BYOND was kinda like most games on BYOND itself, something that the developers want to do and achieve. To help offset the costs of all the time, and tools and resources they (BYONDS owners?) have advertisements on their website, and also offer the membership.

Is this right? Or am i completley wrong? XD

That's pretty much bang on. BYOND has been going into the red for years, out of the goodness of Dan's and Tom's hearts; it's finally into the black, turning a small profit thanks to BYOND Members. That profit is entirely consumed with one person's paycheque, the site hosting and bandwidth, and one other person's cost-of-living.

BYOND always will be intended to turn a profit, but Dan and Tom were primarily interested in making the greatest game creation tool of all time. The fact that it was operating at a loss for some time was interfering with Dan's personal life, so Dan ultimately decided that his family was more important and I applaud him for it.

I am not totally sure how many coders (and staff in general) work on BYOND, ive only seen one or two names floating around the forums. If it really is just those few people then i can see why a version for OSX would be pretty impossible to do.

One full-time paid programmer (Lummox JR), one full-time owner/programmer/designer receiving cost-of-living expenses only (Tom), one part-time volunteer web developer (Mike H), one contract-basis volunteer web developer (Deadron), and two dozen or so volunteer forum moderators and volunteer guild leaders (myself, digitalmouse, Hiead/Kuraudo, Gughunter, ACWraith, etc.). A surprising amount of the forum administration is handled by Tom, Mike H, and Lummox JR as it is.

I guess the only way BYOND can ever hope to "expand" into things like this is if the staff does, and that means more money. Perhaps BYOND could consider offering some more packages for developers? Like membership only higher cost and extra tools for game makers?

Some consideration for a "pay-only" version of Dream Maker was considered, which would offer some more powerful language features, but the maxim of BYOND has long been that "the tools and site will always be free" and most BYOND staff would be remiss to do otherwise.