MAC Address Banning?

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Jun 20 2009, 4:00 pm
In response to Falacy
Falacy wrote:
Tiberath wrote:
Did you consider that instead of changing it, people can mask it with the arguably much easier method of installing a proxy and hitting some button which sums up to "Give me an IP address from [some European country]"?

I also imagine, when some people talk about changing their IP address, they do in fact mean: mask.

Yea, the laws of society suck. Deal with it.

I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean nor your implied hostility in expressing it.
Jun 20 2009, 4:01 pm
In response to Tiberath
Tiberath wrote:
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean nor your implied hostility in expressing it.

Uh... it means exactly what it says? With any implied hostility expressed.
Jun 20 2009, 4:09 pm
In response to Falacy
Falacy wrote:
Tiberath wrote:
I'm sorry, I don't understand what you mean nor your implied hostility in expressing it.

Uh... it means exactly what it says? With any implied hostility expressed.

I fail to see what the laws of society have to do with people masking their IP address via proxy to get around a simple IP based ban.

I was aware of some countries that might consider the act of using a proxy to be illegal (I think Snagler mentioned something about that in Germany, but it was a long time ago. And I wouldn't put it passed China's legal system) but for the most part, I was under the impression there are no laws against using proxies in countries such as the US, Canada and Australia (well, they probably will make them illegal in AU in due course). I also don't understand the basis for your hostility.
Jun 20 2009, 4:18 pm (Edited on Jun 20 2009, 4:24 pm)
In response to Tiberath
Tiberath wrote:
I fail to see what the laws of society have to do with people masking their IP address via proxy to get around a simple IP based ban.

Very few forms of cheating/hacking are considered illegal, and practically none are ever pursued. Does that mean everyone should run around doing it? It doesn't, but most people do it anyway.
My point was that there are almost no laws moderating the internet, and even the ones that do exist are rarely noticed or enforced. The legal system of "real" society is slightly better, but still nowhere near impressive. The world has no morals, "deal with it", take care of things yourself or get screwed over, end of the story.
As far as computers go, somebody could design a finger print/retinal scanner for IDs, and somebody else could easily write software to get around around it.
Jun 20 2009, 4:34 pm
In response to Falacy
Falacy wrote:
Very few forms of cheating/hacking are considered illegal, and practically none are ever pursued.

(Hacking in terms of illegal access to computers)
Unless the act of hacking is caught mid way, there is no real way of proving it as any log that can show an act of hacking can easily be altered, making that as a form of evidence moot.

(Hacking in terms of piracy)
I've also seen many, many websites linked to piracy come and go as the years have gone by.

Does that mean everyone should run around doing it? It doesn't, but most people do it anyway.

I don't know anyone who has performed an act of hacking. And I know very few people who if they wanted to, know how too.

My point was that there are almost no laws moderating the internet, and even the ones that do exist are rarely noticed or enforced.

Hm, I hear about paedophile websites being shut-down and perpetrators of such acts online being caught quite often. I also hear of many, many scam websites that imitate things such as Paypal and whatnot being shut-down reasonably quickly as well.

The legal system of "real" society is slightly better, but still nowhere near impressive. The world has no morals, "deal with it", take care of things yourself or get screwed over, end of the story.

So, if my child gets kidnapped, you're stating I should find a firearm and start hunting the guy down, as the authorities will be of absolutely no help to me?

As far as computers go, somebody could design a finger print/retinal scanner for IDs, and somebody else could easily write software to get around around it.

I hear about ATMs having PIN numbers stolen all the time. Not just once or twice in the last decade. No wait, I'm wrong, once or twice in the last decade has someone managed to modify an ATM to record peoples card and pin numbers and successfully steal money from them. To which they were quickly caught and brought to justice.

Pointing out that fact at every possible turn just makes you look like a prick.

Or you know, a realist. I pointed out that an IP address is in fact very easy to "change"/mask by the end user, which contradicts the statements you were making completely. And I think that is the source of your hostility.
Jun 20 2009, 4:55 pm
In response to Tiberath
Tiberath wrote:
(Hacking in terms of illegal access to computers)
Unless the act of hacking is caught mid way, there is no real way of proving it as any log that can show an act of hacking can easily be altered, making that as a form of evidence moot.

Because no global systems are put in place to prevent these things. Just like a lot of situations in the real world. If you don't want people speeding then why the hell can cars go 100+? If you don't want them driving without a seat-belt then why do cars start without having the seat-belt buckled? Just like on the internet, these preventative systems could be circumvented, but if they were it would be an obvious sign of guilt. If implemented properly it would be well documented so we can just throw scumbags directly into the electric chair instead of wasting countless time, money, and manpower on pointless events, handled by power abusing members of society that are in no way better than the people they're judging, and even when handled properly don't even guarantee a proper decision.

(Hacking in terms of piracy)
I've also seen many, many websites linked to piracy come and go as the years have gone by.

Oh yea... napster, limewire, piratebay. They went down for a few days... then they came back up, usually with some sort of subscription fee, still offering the same pirated material that they were "shut down" for to begin with.

I don't know anyone who has performed an act of hacking. And I know very few people who if they wanted to, know how too.

You must not play many online games. Though even here on BYOND there are people who constantly do things that could blatantly be considered as hacking and no real actions have ever been taken against any of them.

Hm, I hear about paedophile websites being shut-down and perpetrators of such acts online being caught quite often. I also hear of many, many scam websites that imitate things such as Paypal and whatnot being shut-down reasonably quickly as well.

These sites are usually shut down, it usually doesn't involve any form of law enforcement officials though. Most of the time it is handled by the host/provider of the domain. And I rarely ever hear of the users/owners of the actual sites being reprimanded in any way.

So, if my child gets kidnapped, you're stating I should find a firearm and start hunting the guy down, as the authorities will be of absolutely no help to me?

The authorities may have more luck finding them than you would. But even if they do, your child would most likely end up dead/abused by the time they managed to, and even if they catch the guy they'll just throw him in with the other criminals instead of dealing any type of appropriate punishment. Letting him become even more dangerous and connected before releasing him back into the public a few years later to repeat his crime.

I hear about ATMs having PIN numbers stolen all the time. Not just once or twice in the last decade. No wait, I'm wrong, once or twice in the last decade has someone managed to modify an ATM to record peoples card and pin numbers and successfully steal money from them. To which they were quickly caught and brought to justice.

Yea modifying an ATM seems like it would be a somewhat difficult, insanely obvious way to get caught. Stealing somebody's account information in general though, there are far easier ways to do it, that will leave you far more anonymous.

Or you know, a realist. I pointed out that an IP address is in fact very easy to "change"/mask by the end user, which contradicts the statements you were making completely. And I think that is the source of your hostility.

It wasn't so much because you were contradicting it, but because I hadn't fully realized how ridiculously unmoral every human being on the planet was.
Jun 21 2009, 6:36 pm
In response to Falacy
Falacy wrote:
Tiberath wrote:
(Hacking in terms of illegal access to computers)
Unless the act of hacking is caught mid way, there is no real way of proving it as any log that can show an act of hacking can easily be altered, making that as a form of evidence moot.

Because no global systems are put in place to prevent these things. Just like a lot of situations in the real world. If you don't want people speeding then why the hell can cars go 100+? If you don't want them driving without a seat-belt then why do cars start without having the seat-belt buckled? Just like on the internet, these preventative systems could be circumvented, but if they were it would be an obvious sign of guilt. If implemented properly it would be well documented so we can just throw scumbags directly into the electric chair instead of wasting countless time, money, and manpower on pointless events, handled by power abusing members of society that are in no way better than the people they're judging, and even when handled properly don't even guarantee a proper decision.

No, typically because those systems become way too overpowered and allow the government to spy on you (like wiretapping).

(Hacking in terms of piracy)
I've also seen many, many websites linked to piracy come and go as the years have gone by.

Oh yea... napster, limewire, piratebay. They went down for a few days... then they came back up, usually with some sort of subscription fee, still offering the same pirated material that they were "shut down" for to begin with.

Limewire makes you promise not to pirate (lol). The Pirate Bay is simply not illegal in their country. Napster, I don't know anything about, I could care less.

I don't know anyone who has performed an act of hacking. And I know very few people who if they wanted to, know how too.

You must not play many online games. Though even here on BYOND there are people who constantly do things that could blatantly be considered as hacking and no real actions have ever been taken against any of them.

Like what? They guessed someone's password? They used that BA keylogger riddled with trojans that they downloaded?

So, if my child gets kidnapped, you're stating I should find a firearm and start hunting the guy down, as the authorities will be of absolutely no help to me?

The authorities may have more luck finding them than you would. But even if they do, your child would most likely end up dead/abused by the time they managed to, and even if they catch the guy they'll just throw him in with the other criminals instead of dealing any type of appropriate punishment. Letting him become even more dangerous and connected before releasing him back into the public a few years later to repeat his crime.

Kidnapping is a federal offense, you get more than a few years of jail time.

I hear about ATMs having PIN numbers stolen all the time. Not just once or twice in the last decade. No wait, I'm wrong, once or twice in the last decade has someone managed to modify an ATM to record peoples card and pin numbers and successfully steal money from them. To which they were quickly caught and brought to justice.

Yea modifying an ATM seems like it would be a somewhat difficult, insanely obvious way to get caught. Stealing somebody's account information in general though, there are far easier ways to do it, that will leave you far more anonymous.

It's really easy to do, just set up a special card scanner over the real scanner and then a tiny camera to pick up the pin numbers. Not to say its not easy to get caught, though; you'd have to be a great actor to not get caught.
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