BYOND the 'next evolution'

ID:132660
 
Jan 16 2010, 2:14 am
Couldnt BYOND use 3D mode.It doesn't mean we have to neglect the Flat Mapping System. Its like using a pixel_z buffer.

You don't really go 3d but it can contain 3d objects.Like Insert 3D draw procedures and provide a texture for the object.

A Nice way done is the Game Maker. It actually does not support 3D , rooms are flat as in BYOND but it can contain 3D objects. You can create a First Person Shooting Game and lots..

I recommend to try Game Maker, cause it can extremely give ideas that can be added to BYOND.Though the Defect with Game Maker is that
  • it does not provide an active HUB/Website for the Games..(the reason BYOND is cool).
  • the procedure_names are a paragraph long
  • etc....


Since I do not know anything about 'BYOND' Development(I believe it was created in 'C'/'Java'), So I really cannot say if BYOND gods can add this but you ought to take a look at Game Maker.
Jan 16 2010, 2:34 am
Getenks wrote:
Since I do not know anything about 'BYOND' Development

And that prevents you from using the forum search, which would have linked you to replies (by these 'BYOND gods') to similar suggestions?
Jan 16 2010, 2:36 am
In response to Schnitzelnagler
Of Course I know that.. but I am still trying to Persuade.. Get It ?

+ I mentioned an example too. >.>
Jan 16 2010, 3:08 am
I don't think it would add enough to justify the development cost at the moment. My main concerns would be more along the lines of tool support.

What I would be far more interested in seeing is a 3 to 6 month period of consolidation of the platform and site, along the lines of some of Tom's previously identified language refactoring and site issues identified elsewhere. Tackling some internal documentation issues during this period could also reap some benefits for 3rd party tool support. I will make a blog post on this shortly.
Jan 16 2010, 4:10 am
This would be a great idea if BYOND ever did client-side processing. Right now every bit of strain is on the host which in turn limits the FPS of a multiplayer game.

You can still create your own 3D mode by using client.screen to render it.
Jan 16 2010, 4:38 am
In response to Getenks
BYOND is so much better then Game Maker, but that is just my opinion. Back when I was 10 (03-04) I was trying to be one of those sweet guys who would make a game, not knowing what I'd get myself in to. Game Maker was one of the first things I found (hence, my google search: Game Maker), and I quickly dumped it because I flat-out just didn't understand it.

I came back to it a few years later, I understand it just fine, I can make a pretty decent game in it... but I just don't like it. There's something about interface programming I don't like because I feel so limited to what I can do with it. That's why BYOND is so appealing to me.
Jan 16 2010, 1:47 pm
I'd rather they optimize BYOND a bit before adding frilly features like the ones you've mentioned. The netcode needs some lovin' and most games still have a chunky feel because of the low framerate. Things like native pixel movement have been suggested for a long time as well.
Jan 16 2010, 4:02 pm
In response to SuperAntx
Yeah BYOND doesn't even have basic pixel movement yet.

3D games aren't as close as you think.
Jan 16 2010, 7:15 pm
In response to Getenks
Getenks wrote:
Of Course I know that.. but I am still trying to Persuade.. Get It ?

I'm not sure you read past threads on this subject in much depth if you think lack of adequate persuasion is the issue. The reasons 3D is not workable have been discussed at great length. I recommend giving those discussions another read to get a good idea of what's involved, since there's no point rehashing all that again here.

Stephen001 brings up an excellent point about tool support however. A lot of people don't really understand that developing games for 3D is a great deal harder than developing in 2D, because manipulating 3D models requires a whole different class of skills, and programs to work on those models tend to be either expensive or complex, or both. For the life of me I've never been able to figure out how to use Blender for instance.

Lummox JR
Jan 16 2010, 8:29 pm
In response to Lummox JR
Lummox JR wrote:
For the life of me I've never been able to figure out how to use Blender for instance.

Nor have I, and any attempts at reading Blender docs have thus far given me a serious case of A.D.D.

I find Autodesk's Maya much simpler to use---and more powerful at that---but unfortunately I no longer have access to that little gadget, and my laptop couldn't run it anyway.
Jan 16 2010, 8:30 pm
In response to Stephen001
Stephen001 wrote:
My main concerns would be more along the lines of tool support.
Tackling some internal documentation issues during this period could also reap some benefits for 3rd party tool support. I will make a blog post on this shortly.

Looking forward to it.
Jan 17 2010, 2:15 am (Edited on Jan 17 2010, 2:22 am)
In response to Kuraudo
Actually if you guys comprehend to my post.I am not really asking a 3D BYOND. I am just asking an illusion that makes it look 3D(Like Isomerism).

The reason I mentioned Game Maker is because it really does not use 3D. But Its just an illusion provided by Game Maker.So I only asked for another Illusion which really makes it look 3D.

This is how I believe Game Maker Works, Game Maker uses a z pixel buffer. And adds a texture to an object.Well how ever if this is not possible with BYOND you may not reply.
Jan 17 2010, 6:14 am
In response to Getenks
Giving a game the illusion of an actual 3D environment is already very well possible and was done already (there are other examples as well, though not necessarily as complete), just like it was possible to manually fake an isometric perspective before even BYOND 4.0, which is also a bunch of work, but was done (even in multiple libraries, I believe).
Jan 17 2010, 6:15 am (Edited on Jan 17 2010, 8:44 am)
In response to Lummox JR
Ray Casting: As you can see, wouldn't require many changes to be made at the dev level. And if done correctly should even be applicable to existing projects with minimal effort (unlike ISO). Even the NES is capable of it. And BYOND game(s) have already been made using it to some degree.
Seems like it would be a far more worthwhile venture than ISO ever will be. Though I think it would require somewhat heavy client-sided processing, which is why I wouldn't bother building a local system to replicate it. I'm not really sure how Vengeance handles it, as far as I can conceive it would require massive amounts of resources to be downloaded by a client. If this were to be implemented it could open up a whole new avenue for game design (again, unlike ISO).
Ray Casting (Doom II FTW?) is probably what Getenks was referring to, though Game Maker is capable of truer 3D.
EDIT: And pfft on you for out posting me by a minute Kaioken =P
EDIT 2: With the implementation of this you could go ahead and work on pixel movement, client sided graphical processing, and possibly other longtime requested systems that would benefit most everyone.
Jan 17 2010, 6:52 am
In response to Falacy
Falacy wrote:
I'm not really sure how Vengeance handles it, as far as I can conceive it would require massive amounts of resources to be downloaded by a client.

Vengeance doesn't actually use the normal server-client model BYOND games typically use. To remain playable, it uses a server-server model. Each player runs the game as his own local world, and it facilitates online play by doing server to server communication with the world designated as the server or as such.

EDIT: And pfft on you for out posting me by a minute Kaioken =P

Hmm. I still got my touch.
Jan 17 2010, 10:12 am
In response to SuperAntx
Well, I don't know specifically what he was referring to, because, no pictures, and such like that, but, I was thinking maybe a thing to show z-levels onto one surface, like so that you can get a Tibia-styled game, seeing below you, and above you and such would be awesome.

For references and pictures, go to http://www.tibia.com/
Jan 18 2010, 8:34 pm
In response to Dan0971
I am working on a BYOND 3Dier Software in C++.It will probably will end with a Failure.But I still believe 'Nothing is impossible in the world of Programming'. Though I give a 100% guarantee that 'I Will Try'.But I am not doing this because I know a lot but because I want to know a lot.

But do not ever count on this.