ID:132649
 Jan 21 2010, 8:46 am
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List pros and cons of BYOND 455+ (when ISO was released):
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SuperAntx wrote:
http://www.byond.com/docs/notes/ Yes, I have read them. As far as I can tell 90% of the new features either completely suck, are completely useless, or broke existing systems. So go ahead and list what you think is "awesome" (the whole point of this topic) | |
Falacy wrote:
List pros and cons of BYOND 455+ (when ISO was released): Wouldn't this be better in the community forum? Or better yet, as a blog post? It seems like it has the potential to generate a lot of posts with little significant content, with the added bonus of +5 flamebait. | |
Mobius Evalon wrote:
Wouldn't this be better in the community forum? Or better yet, as a blog post? It seems like it has the potential to generate a lot of posts with little significant content, with the added bonus of +5 flamebait. I figure a list of new BYOND Features (and which are good or bad) would indeed go in the "BYOND Features" category "Discuss, query, and request features for the BYOND software and website." | |
I'll humor you.
Awesome stuff: Isometric mode Big icons <--Favorite Custom icon sizes Map edge buffer zone Pixel nudge in map editor set instant EFFECTS_LAYER Make EXE improvements ctrl+delete / ctrl+backspace Way too many bug fixes to list Not so awesome stuff: Big icons as overlays were broken for awhile. Updating the text procs was a minor inconvenience. Pretty much everything has been positive. Anything negative was either unavoidable or has already been fixed by now. | |
Falacy wrote:
List pros and cons of BYOND 455+ (when ISO was released): Definite Pro: New and interesting features cause ignorant people who don't take the time to do their research to make complete fools of themselves (citation: [link] ) Then, for some reason, after blatant and obvious humiliation and public displays of ignorance they decide to make another thread that is heading down the same road as the first. BYOND 455: Troll pwning. (This thread is so gunna get closed. :( :( :( ) EDIT: Falacy wrote: SuperAntx wrote: You weren't hugged as a child were you? | |
AJX wrote:
Definite Pro: New and interesting features cause ignorant people who don't take the time to do their research to make complete fools over themselves (citation: [link] ) Then, for some reason, after blatant and obvious humiliation and public displays of ignorance they decide to make another thread that is heading down the same road as the first. Right, because ISO mode was in any way shape or form a competent update? Where are all the ISO games? And even when they do come out how is that at all an improvement or worthwhile new graphical mode? It can't be applied retroactively in any way. It slowed down ALL projects, and caused multiple new "fixes" to be added just to continue supporting them. I still stick to everything said in that post. ISO was a completely retarded waste of time that helped nobody and hindered everything. They even deleted my performance bug report linked there (claiming it was fixed), even though the exact same issue has since been reposted. Everyone seems so excited about "Big Icon" crap, but it does absolutely nothing. The system could be easily replicated in less than 10 lines of code - woopty freaking do. And it disables competently placing multi tiled atoms on the map editor. Larger icons in general don't really "do" anything either. You can edit a 320x320 scaled to the same "zoom" as a 32x32 one? Well that's effective! And other then that they work pretty much exactly the same as before. computer_ids were changed with absolutely no notification, yet another genius update. On top of countless other things that I've complained about to no avail. You noobs can suck up all you want, and pretend things are getting better. If you never tell the devs what sucks, they're never going to actually improve upon those systems. There are a few pros though: More frames in the icon editor Pixel offsets showing on the map editor Fix for commands getting piled up The reason I'm trying to get a competent list of pros/cons is so I can see if its actually worth updating to. So far this topic isn't swaying me towards it in the least. | |
Falacy wrote:
Right, because ISO mode was in any way shape or form a competent update? Where are all the ISO games? And even when they do come out how is that at all an improvement or worthwhile new graphical mode? Ok, to answer this seriously: 1: Yes, ISO was an excellent update IMO and I see great potential for its use. 2: Where are all the ISO games? You mean Where are all of the games?? It takes time to develop games. 3: Yes... It allows different playstyles that were previously near impossible to code. (Yes I know ISO demos existed in the past, but they couldn't compete with hard coded functionality.) It can't be applied retroactively in any way. Just because you don't want to put in the effort to apply new graphics to an old game doesn't mean it isn't possible. It slowed down ALL projects, and caused multiple new "fixes" to be added just to continue supporting them. Istill stick to everything said in that post. IDK what you're talking about in regards to slowing down all projects. It shouldn't have any effects on the performance of a game operating in top down. ISO was a completely retarded waste of time that helped nobody and hindered everything. They even deleted my performance bug report linked there (claiming it was fixed), even though the exact same issue has since been reposted. Again, I see potential for ISO. In regards to the performance issue I haven't been keeping up on it so I have no clue what you're talking about. If it is actually true then it will be fixed so quit complaining. Everyone seems so excited about "Big Icon" crap, but it does absolutely nothing. The system could be easily replicated in less than 10 lines of code - woopty freaking do. Hard coded solutions are much preferable... Larger icons in general don't really "do" anything either. You can edit a 320x320 scaled to the same "zoom" as a 32x32 one? Well that's effective! And other then that they work pretty much exactly the same as before. Etc etc, opinion, so no point in discussing. computer_ids were changed with absolutely no notification, yet another genius update. Due to a security compromise regarding them. Much better to have recently changed but secure CIDs than old and problematic ones. This is not nearly as big of a deal as you're making it out to be. On top of countless other things that I've complained about to no avail. You noobs can suck up all you want, and pretend things are getting better. If you never tell the devs what sucks, they're never going to actually improve upon those systems. We do provide feedback on issues we feel need addressing, however we do so without being dicks (usually). There are a few pros though: Don't take this the wrong way, but if you actually wanted that kind of information you shouldn't have been... well yourself. You know very well the manner in which you approach discussions will be received negatively. | |
Falacy wrote:
It slowed down ALL projects, and caused multiple new "fixes" to be added just to continue supporting them. Please elaborate or post a bug report. ISO mode should not have had any effect on old projects. While a number of bugs were fixed post-455, nothing like this ever came up. The remainder of your post is worthless. If you don't like the new features, you can just ignore them. We had a few issues with the initial release, which is bound to happen, but currently 462 is as stable as any release of BYOND has ever been. | |
AJX wrote:
IDK what you're talking about in regards to slowing down all projects. It shouldn't have any effects on the performance of a game operating in top down. OH BUT IT HAS. And Lummox says he can't (or won't) actually fix it (even though he just broke it). He says implementing direct x is his planned method for fixation. Hard coded solutions are much preferable... True. If it was done smoothly, and effectively.... The current way doesn't seem to have been done so however, and actually broke a lot of games to begin with. Which since then has been "fixed" like 3 times, but I'm still hearing issues about it. Maybe a per-atom setting would have been better off. Due to a security compromise regarding them. Much better to have recently changed but secure CIDs than old and problematic ones. This is not nearly as big of a deal as you're making it out to be. Maybe not to you, or many others. But I was properly managing thousands of people using computer_ids. The change happened client side, with no warning or transition period, and completely screwed me over. I now have to completely redesign or remove at least 1 system, and work at reinforcing multiple others. We do provide feedback on issues we feel need addressing, however we do so without being dicks (usually). YEY ISO MODE, YEY BIG ICONS, YEY YEY YEY Yes, the complaints are abundant. There are very few people I see around here with any type of unbiased comments towards updates. And considering they banned me for always pointing out their flawed systems, I can see why. (not that I can say I'm much different towards my players) Don't take this the wrong way, but if you actually wanted that kind of information you shouldn't have been... well yourself. You know very well the manner in which you approach discussions will be received negatively. "List pros and cons of BYOND 455+ (when ISO was released):"? Tom wrote: Please elaborate or post a bug report. ISO mode should not have had any effect on old projects. I did, you deleted it: http://www.byond.com/members/ BYONDHelp?command=view_tracker_issue&tracker_issue=631 | |
Falacy wrote:
AJX wrote: So now both me (doesn't really matter) and Tom have no clue what you're talking about. I do dislike that your report was strait up deleted though, but I assume it because you were mouthing off and not being productive. Hard coded solutions are much preferable... No clue what you're talking about, I've done extensive playing with the ISO system and it flows very well for me. Due to a security compromise regarding them. Much better to have recently changed but secure CIDs than old and problematic ones. This is not nearly as big of a deal as you're making it out to be. I get what you're saying, but the alternative is worse. And it isn't like you can't deal with it, it shouldn't even be hard to do so. We do provide feedback on issues we feel need addressing, however we do so without being dicks (usually). You cannot be so blatantly ignorant that you don't see how big of a dick you are (I believe intentionally) You give a lot of feedback, that is good. You do it in a very whiny and negative way, that is bad. If you could straiten out your attitude nobody would have a problem with you. Don't take this the wrong way, but if you actually wanted that kind of information you shouldn't have been... well yourself. You know very well the manner in which you approach discussions will be received negatively. Your response to another person's posts, in which you mentioned how all the features seemed to suck and were useless. Tom wrote: Meh. I don't think bug reports should be deleted, merely rejected or deferred. | |
AJX wrote:
No clue what you're talking about, I've done extensive playing with the ISO system and it flows very well for me. I'm not talking about in ISO mode, but the 2 options for top down views. There's even a topic semi-about it going on at the moment. You cannot be so blatantly ignorant that you don't see how big of a dick you are (I believe intentionally) You're not coming across much better =P | |
Falacy wrote:
AJX wrote: If your huge complaint is about how the mapper is a little bit slower on certain systems when first loading a map or switching z-levels, yes, we're aware of it. I don't consider this a major issue because AFAIK it's not that big of a deal, but it if it really is crippling a lot of developers, we can bump it up on the priority list. True. If it was done smoothly, and effectively.... The current way doesn't seem to have been done so however, and actually broke a lot of games to begin with. Which since then has been "fixed" like 3 times, but I'm still hearing issues about it. Maybe a per-atom setting would have been better off. It is pretty good for the majority of games that use big icons. It doesn't currently work that well if your icons are larger than 4x4 tiles and you have a mobile view. We plan on fixing that at some point; I don't think it affects many games though. We aren't aware of issues beyond that. And you are free to not use this new system; the old system (TILED_ICONS_MAP) should work even better than before due to some unrelated bug fixes. Maybe not to you, or many others. But I was properly managing thousands of people using computer_ids. The old system had a flaw where users with a particular setup shared the same computer_id. This was a known bug in the third-party software we were using to generate the id, and was fixed with an update. This had the side-effect of changing some other ids. It shouldn't be a frequent occurrence. And considering they banned me for always pointing out their flawed systems, I can see why. (not that I can say I'm much different towards my players) No, you were banned for being rude and confrontational. You will be banned again if you keep it up, and if you really get on my nerves I'll kick you and all of your games out of this community entirely. You don't seem to understand that we want to work with you to improve BYOND. All we ask is you be civil and provide whatever details you have when things go wrong. We created a bug tracker for this very purpose and for the most part it is working fine. Tom wrote: We only delete reports if they are duplicates, useless, or insulting. You must have done one of these things. Feel free to repost if you can control yourself. | |
Cons: Have to learn how to use the new stuff.