Lummox JR wrote:
The server will need a little more for Flash players, because it's generating the map output whereas DS does all that on the client end after only getting some minimal updates from the server. The server is generating the graphical output seen in the map control for each flash client? | |
Forum_account wrote:
The server is generating the graphical output seen in the map control for each flash client? If you mean the server interacts with the graphics, then no, most of the time it never even looks at that data. For both the windows and flash clients, the server sends resources ahead of time and references them by id. The difference is that the flash setup is a thinner client, where the client has very little state information. DS keeps track of the atoms (actually what we call "appearance data" -- atoms+overlays etc) on a local map and (by proxy) tracks some somewhat antiquated things like lighting/opacity. The Flash client only cares about what it displays and handles this via updates from the server on map changes (done efficiently in a "diff" like manner so that unchanged or offset graphics need limited updates). In this setup, we can still handle things like opacity, but that'd just be maintained on the server and transmitted via per-graphic updates as opposed to built-in knowledge of atom properties on the client-end. This is a much easier model to maintain and with broadband being so ubiquitous, I don't expect it to be a problem (testing has verified this), but we can always optimize things more client-side as needed. | |
That's better than how it originally sounded, but I still get the impression that DS will never get certain updates because they'd be hard to implement on the flash client.
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Well in response to everything I have read, I decided I would give my opinion on things here.
I think flash games will be nice so you don't have to download the client & everything else but I failed to read how login/registration works from the flash client. I read a lot about advertisements, now this is something think shouldn't really happen especially if the developer doesn't want to, especially not advertisements that changes itself while your playing the game, it should be a static advertisement if anything, my computer has a terrible video card & IE is even more terrible at how it deals with threading & such so it lags my computer on other sites with changing ads like that. In my experience with a few other games though flash BYOND will be unplayable because my computer sucks & the requitements will probably be slightly higher, my video card mostly so it lags to hell. As far as advertisements go I would use them in the normal game client & the flash version given I could choose how & when they should be displayed but I don't want ads that I don't get to choose how/when they should appear because I don't want the experience to be lessened because ads are forced on you & can't be controlled in the least by the developer. Also as far as updating your browser goes & all the talk about html5 stable or not & browser support, while keeping your computer up to date is a good idea, security, able to browse the latest websites how they are meant to be viewed, etc....I agree the browsers do have varying support at places but would still like to see it happen... As far as updating to the latest browser, IE10 being able to support new features, etc...not all people will have the newest version of windows to install the latest version of IE, some can't run IE9 because they haven't updated windows due to money issues, don't like the newer operating system, etc.... & IE10 only runs at all(in beta) even if you download the pre-release Windows 8 & then even if it comes out & this stays true you can't expect people to update to Windows 8 either... I think it's great other devices will gain BYOND support through the flash client & hope it works great, I will support it in my games whenever I work on one that matters, but not use it unless it does perform better/the same than the client we use now & works about the same. --I don't know if hotkeys will all work as they do now or not due to some buttons being used in the browser for other functions, etc....but hopefully it will support what the regular client does now still anyways, as some flash games I had to change keys to something else because one browser had a menu that came up when you pressed the key in your browser.(depending on what browser you had) | |
Superbike32 wrote:
I read a lot about advertisements, now this is something think shouldn't really happen especially if the developer doesn't want to, especially not advertisements that changes itself while your playing the game, it should be a static advertisement if anything, my computer has a terrible video card & IE is even more terrible at how it deals with threading & such so it lags my computer on other sites with changing ads like that. If you're talking about ads in a separate box, I would tend to agree that we'd want to keep them simple. But otherwise showing ads during the game isn't on the table; we're just talking about prerolls at this point. Personally I find interrupting ads, like the ones Youtube shows at the bottom of a video, highly annoying and no one would tolerate this in a game, which is why no Flash game sites do that. In my experience with a few other games though flash BYOND will be unplayable because my computer sucks & the requitements will probably be slightly higher, my video card mostly so it lags to hell. I doubt the requirements would be any higher at the client end. In thoery the thin client approach should be better for your system. As far as advertisements go I would use them in the normal game client & the flash version given I could choose how & when they should be displayed but I don't want ads that I don't get to choose how/when they should appear because I don't want the experience to be lessened because ads are forced on you & can't be controlled in the least by the developer. I don't think giving developers control over the ads is in the cards in any way, except possibly as a premium service or something. That just gets into micromanaging. Also, most ad delivery services have limited control at most. I think it's great other devices will gain BYOND support through the flash client & hope it works great, I will support it in my games whenever I work on one that matters, but not use it unless it does perform better/the same than the client we use now & works about the same. The client performance should be at least as good as DS. The server has to do slightly more work, is all. --I don't know if hotkeys will all work as they do now or not due to some buttons being used in the browser for other functions, etc....but hopefully it will support what the regular client does now still anyways, as some flash games I had to change keys to something else because one browser had a menu that came up when you pressed the key in your browser.(depending on what browser you had) If you mean you want support for custom macros or aliases, I suppose that's a possibility but it hasn't been discussed. Generally most regular keys should be safe from bringing up a menu, and in Firefox at least the Flash player tends to eat commands that the browser would otherwise grab, like Ctrl+T. Keyboard support has generally been working pretty well in the Flash client. Mind you, a game that's meant to be played on smartphones or tablets will probably need an optional mouse interface. You could let players choose which by providing a "play with mouse/touchscreen" option in the opening screen. | |
I am glad to hear it will likely not have ads there while you are playing the game & that performance of the flash version might run slightly better than ds or at least about the same.
Also I am glad to here most hotkeys should work fine in most browsers, but as for setting up your own hotkeys for a game in the flash client, I think this should be something that should be setup, I mean other games have built options in-game for setting them up instead of going through BYOND's menus which might actually work better so you can do hotkeys for example on a per-character basis, etc...but I don't know how I could add it easy...I think the game that does this is Regressia...? I am not sure. As for the possibility of a premium service & ads if we got access to ads in some way to make us money in that way by showing ads that usually BYOND would be showing, like a part of the profits from ads in the game, even if you must be a member, I think people might actually use this. From my point of view I would use the ads at certain times showing them only to people who aren't BYOND members unless the BYOND member has requested he doesn't mind the ads & wishes to allow them to display anyways (similar to how the site already allows members to disable ads on the site. | |
Lummox JR wrote:
Tom has been expanding on the client's capabilities a bit, but the test we got working with NEStalgia used just a regular HUD interface, click-based, without really relying on verb input. The best thing to do for Flash compatibility will be to at least allow for a mode that relies strictly on keyboard macros and the HUD. I would also stay away from MIDI music, since that's off the table for the foreseeable future; for NEStalgia we converted the music to .ogg and .mp3 files. (From the looks of things though, we may have to stick with .ogg for sound. We also have code that can convert a .wav sound effect to .ogg on the server end.) So does that mean that verbs will not be supported at all in the Flash client? What about stat panels? | |
Unwanted4Murder wrote:
So does that mean that verbs will not be supported at all in the Flash client? What about stat panels? The verb system is still in, but it may not have the client-side expansion. I'm expecting most games to be click-based so it'll be more-or-less clicking to activate a verb, but you can still type it in if you choose to go that route. Stat panels are not currently in because we are using a very simplified UI. | |
Tom wrote:
Unwanted4Murder wrote: That's good. Finding a new way to display stats sounds like a lot less hassle than having to turn every verb into either a macro or a HUD button. Thank you very much for the quick reply. (: | |
In the DD/DS model, the server only sends each client info about turfs in its general area (it sends a bunch at once, and only refreshes it needs to), objs and mobs within viewing distance, and a handful of other items like anything in a statpanel in inventory. So already a game that's segregated so different players are on different maps wouldn't be sending players info about each other.
In the Flash model, the server builds the map on its end entirely and sends out the info on what to display. This would be unaffected by whether other players were visible on the same map or not.
We haven't given any consideration to server changes yet in Flash. I would assume it's possible, but we'd need to have some kind of way of sharing resources intelligently.