ID:132242
 Oct 3 2011, 2:50 pm
|
|
I'm just wondering, aside from not having to download the Byond client, what shall we receive from having Byond in a Flash form? How will servers and such work? Single player games? Please explain. Thanks =)
| |
What UI elements are the most troublesome to add? It would be nice to know what elements to avoid if you're working on a game that is suited for portal sites. Just in case full interface compatibility isn't possible
| |
How this will exactly work? I'm very curious about how the things would change.
We would be able to continue programming games like now? There will be a way to enable-disable flash? (Think this is a stupid question) We'll program Flash with the DM language + some Flash (Action Script) functions or what? | |
Ocean King, he answered all of that in his post... Literally, all of it...
How this will exactly work? I'm very curious about how the things would change. Read the post. We would be able to continue programming games like now? Yes. You don't have to do anything at all to support it. The only foreseeable exception is the interface. Which means you might have to make a separate interface for Flash players. (Or not if you don't care about them or don't want to support them for some reason.) There will be a way to enable-disable flash? You'll be able to detect the client type upon their initial connection. From then, it's up to you if you want to just kill their connection or allow them entry. I imagine default is allow them entry (so you don't have to change anything). (Think this is a stupid question) We'll program Flash with the DM language + some Flash (Action Script) functions or what? No. You wont. "The flash client is exactly that, a client". All you have to do is host your game. Embed the flash player inside a website (via HTML), and it'll play similarly to Dream Seeker. The difference is, people wont need to download the BYOND software to play your games. This opens up your game to an internet of bored people looking for something to occupy their time for fifteen or twenty minutes a day. Flash games can be incredibly successful. And BYOND will be able to essentially make flash games (without using any flash at all on our part) that are multi-player. With extreme ease. | |
KetchupKid wrote:
What UI elements are the most troublesome to add? It would be nice to know what elements to avoid if you're working on a game that is suited for portal sites. Just in case full interface compatibility isn't possible The biggest one is the browser control. | |
KetchupKid wrote:
What UI elements are the most troublesome to add? It would be nice to know what elements to avoid if you're working on a game that is suited for portal sites. Just in case full interface compatibility isn't possible The one that stands out to me the most is the browser control. I can't see that being very pretty to throw in there. But then again, I don't know Flash or C++, so my opinion doesn't really count for much. [Edit] -- Ha! Called it! --kinda. | |
Tiberath wrote:
The one that stands out to me the most is the browser control. I can't see that being very pretty to throw in there. But then again, I don't know Flash or C++, so my opinion doesn't really count for much. I don't know about Flash, but with C++ WINAPI allows to load any webpage or program and save it as image to display inside your program. Also it's possible to create standard browser control (similar to BYONDs browser control). However when these controls have to be made manually, it's huge pain. In my opinion making edit box which supports all features is biggest trouble: How to draw any font, font size, how to identify where user clicked, how to copy/paste, etc. | |
3) Ability to run BYOND games on portals like Kongregate and even Facebook, although we will have to decide how to handle this so we don't get left behind; we may rely on embedded ad-revenue in the client to fund the project and that will require cooperation from portals, if we use them. I honestly think it's very important you let the developers compile into a Flash file and be able to distribute it on their own. Put it on their own site, list it where they want, so on. Not quite sure how embedded ads would work, but for sure you should let people know the game is powered by BYOND and have a link for "more games" that links to BYOND.com. If people enjoy the game, they're for sure going to check out others, which will lead them to BYOND.com. Thus BYOND will make money from ads on BYOND.com and maybe even memberships. If you want serious developers, it's very important that you don't overstep your bounds. You make the tools, but the developer creates the game, runs the servers, pays for upkeep, and much more. You're going to make lots of money either way. The more money developers make, the more attractive making games is, the more developers you get, the more money everybody makes. On top of all of that, the more money the developers make, the more they want the tools to be better, and give back to the tool makers. With all of that aside, I think the best path to go is to mimic Kongregate. You want people to come to BYOND.com and play games more than for people to play BYOND games on other sites. So instead of worrying about taking a cut of games off site, you encourage people to run them on BYOND.com. Ad revenue sharing. You pay developers a portion of the ad revenue generated from their game's hub page. You give them more of a percentage depending on certain things. If they only list their game on BYOND.com and their own website, you give them 50% or so of ad revenue. If they put their game on sites other than BYOND.com (which you can easily check), you give them less ad money (and you still get advertising and traffic from the client itself). Not to mention everybody is happy because there aren't any ads embedded directly into the game itself. You want people to think of going to BYOND.com to play games, not put BYOND games on competitor's sites. If you encourage people to stay with BYOND.com, you benefit the most. You want to encourage the developers to do what would benefit you, not force them. | |
Aaiko wrote:
You want people to think of going to BYOND.com to play games, not put BYOND games on competitor's sites. If you encourage people to stay with BYOND.com, you benefit the most. You want to encourage the developers to do what would benefit you, not force them. I like your style. Your entire post pretty much sums up what I've been trying to think of a way of saying all week, very nicely done indeed. I have the same kind of excitement for this that I had for the initial release of BYOND 4.0. I'm actually really motivated to make a half dozen multiplayer casual games so I can pounce on Dream Flash's release. | |
Hey; this is the first I've heard of this!
Could someone please direct me to somewhere where I can find out more information? And what I need to do, as a developer, to prepare? Do I need to learn java? C++? Will it require more/less processing power? Android compatible? Cross platform MMORPG android,mac, and PC? All sorts of questions pop into my mind right now. | |
Saucepan Man wrote:
Could someone please direct me to somewhere where I can find out more information?http://www.byond.com/members/ BYOND?command=view_post&post=106285#flash And what I need to do, as a developer, to prepare?It's just another client like DreamSeeker. The only thing you might have to do is scale back some of your 4.0 interface stuff, but as far as I know that's still up in the air. Will it require more/less processing power?It's a negligible difference. Android compatible?It should be able to run on anything with Flash. | |
Hothothothothothot.
MMORPG on phones. Booyah. I know they already exist but i dont like them. Would be nice to make something NOT like WoW. | |
Saucepan Man wrote:
Hey; this is the first I've heard of this! Tom has been expanding on the client's capabilities a bit, but the test we got working with NEStalgia used just a regular HUD interface, click-based, without really relying on verb input. The best thing to do for Flash compatibility will be to at least allow for a mode that relies strictly on keyboard macros and the HUD. I would also stay away from MIDI music, since that's off the table for the foreseeable future; for NEStalgia we converted the music to .ogg and .mp3 files. (From the looks of things though, we may have to stick with .ogg for sound. We also have code that can convert a .wav sound effect to .ogg on the server end.) There are various other limitations at present. byond:// links from the output don't work. Opacity/luminosity are not handled. input() as a list doesn't work yet. There's a list of these things that I should update soon, but a lot of the core stuff is there. Do I need to learn java? C++? Nope. Will it require more/less processing power? The server will need a little more for Flash players, because it's generating the map output whereas DS does all that on the client end after only getting some minimal updates from the server. Android compatible? Anything that runs Flash should be able to run the Flash client. The server however will still need to run in Dream Daemon or Dream Seeker. | |
The moment you said .mp3 my weenie grew a little. I still don't fully understand why you don't currently support the format, but it makes life all the more awkward.
| |
Tom wrote:
The Flash client is just that-- a client, so you won't be able to play games without a remote server. Porting the server is a lot more work and I think BYOND's niche is really multiplayer games anyway. Right now I'm working on getting the client to support as much UI stuff as possible, mostly to make it so that existing games will work. There are sites that have hundreds of single player flash games which make good income off ads and other stuff. I would really like there to be a single player version for multiple reasons. Multiplayer games require a server. Once BYOND's flash client comes out the traffic is going to shoot up which means people will need to have multiple servers to host a game or the game will get bogged down with lag. Not everyone has machines dedicated to hosting their games. With single player games I don't see this being a problem. There are several fun single player BYOND games where people compete for a high scores. Also with single player games you could make useful utilities in BYOND such as a visual calculator, paint programs, etc... BYOND could be more than just something used to make games. | |
Zaltron wrote:
There are sites that have hundreds of single player flash games which make good income off ads and other stuff. I would really like there to be a single player version for multiple reasons. Multiplayer games require a server. Once BYOND's flash client comes out the traffic is going to shoot up which means people will need to have multiple servers to host a game or the game will get bogged down with lag. Not everyone has machines dedicated to hosting their games. With single player games I don't see this being a problem. There are several fun single player BYOND games where people compete for a high scores. Also with single player games you could make useful utilities in BYOND such as a visual calculator, paint programs, etc... BYOND could be more than just something used to make games. While I'd love it if we could be general-purpose, the fact is that a single-player system is harder for us to develop because that means we have to code the server in flash. | |
Tom wrote:
While I'd love it if we could be general-purpose, the fact is that a single-player system is harder for us to develop because that means we have to code the server in flash. Will we be able to control the network data better such that we can choose what client information is sent to the other clients. That way if we wanted to simulate something like single player we wouldn't have to send each players coordinate data to the other clients and they wouldn't have to bother seeing the other clients. That way the server can handle more players without causing a bunch of lag. Along those lines will it be possible to transition from one server to another easily without having to open a new flash client? I know in DS if you want to switch servers it opens up a new Dream Seeker unless there is another way to do that. It'd be nice if you could change servers within the same Dream Seeker that way you can host different maps on different servers. I would hope it works that way on the flash client as well with it being more easily accessible the traffic should be going up and it'd be nice to have access to multiple servers more easily. | |
You shouldn't have to do anything to support the Flash, aside from possibly limiting your interface (depending on how much of it we're able to port). The server will automatically recognize and handle connections from Flash; you can choose to abort those if you desire.
The main advantages, IMO, are:
1) Finally BYOND support on Mac and some tablets (and we can work to support iPad etc. down the line once HTML5 or whatever is stable)
2) No need to download.
3) Ability to run BYOND games on portals like Kongregate and even Facebook, although we will have to decide how to handle this so we don't get left behind; we may rely on embedded ad-revenue in the client to fund the project and that will require cooperation from portals, if we use them.