How low can one sink... and probably due to money.
You are an idiot.
Leur wrote:
There are multi billion dollar corporations that charge thousands of dollars to vendors per month, to allow them to use a spot in their store to market their product and services, and you people are worried about spending $24 measly dollars for a YEAR to host your products/services in BYOND's "Virtual Store"? I couldn't agree more. Everyone really needs to quit complaining about $24 for a Year Membership. If you're too cheap to see that that's actually NOT a lot of money, then you're probably too cheap to even buy the $18 Membership, in which case, This change doesn't apply to you. Sure $18 is better than $24, but it won't twist my arm on whether or not to renew my membership. The people complaining probably also don't know the labor costs in keeping up a software like BYOND. They could overhaul all of the systems and make it run a hell of a lot faster, charge $50 for the software, and still maintain a good community of developers. The fact that they give this software to you for free astounds me. I think that everyone has a duty to give a little back for Tom and Lummox's hard work. If you don't wanna pay for a membership, I have nothing against you, but please don't go around b****ing about, "How unfair a $6 Membership increase is." | |
BYOND users are probably the most self-entitled, selfish group of people I've ever seen. BYOND has been around for years and up until now you haven't had to pay a single cent to take full advantage of most of their features. Do you guys not understand WHY they have to do this? BYOND isn't making enough money, plain and simple. If all of the people who take advantage of the free service BYOND offers were to buy a membership, the developers would be able to live comfortably... but the simple fact of the matter is that only a small fraction of BYOND's users have a paid account. If they don't start making some serious money soon, the website you all seem to take for granted may cease to exist.
What's the solution? Stop complaining about BYOND's current state of affairs and do something about it. Do your part. Buy a membership, donate, make a game, whatever it takes. Even by just using their software productively, you're helping them to thrive. Don't have the money to help them financially? Then advertise your game on outside websites. Bring them more page views and bring in more players, potential customers, and ad revenue. The developers do their best to give you the tools to help make not only their website but YOUR CREATIONS successful, and complaining about it without actually trying to improve things yourself is nothing short of insulting to their efforts. tl;dr: Nut up or shut up, BYOND users. The ball is in our court. | |
Well for someone starting out I think it's bad because likely they want to ensure they make enough money to at least make up for the subscription & gaining ground for any game can be tough, in this community especially...finding people willing to pay pretty much any amount(s) of money...
As for me & some others they don't have barely any spare cash for pretty much anything extra for games subscriptions & such, so they look for free stuff for a little entertainment... To be able to make games & stuff for free would be nice, I think it should stay that way at least optionally...I would accept more advertisements being shown on the website so they could offset from that(if their payed by the ad being displayed & not having to be clicked on) which I didn't ever ask or try to see how they get paid, or if it's both, but more money for clicked ads... Anyways, obviously BYOND needs more to keep up more, or else they wouldn't have increased(well soon anyways) increase the membership prices by a small margin...but providing other options such as increasing the number of ads for people who opt in, in return for what's normally a membership only feature could be desirable for those that can't afford the membership or have to wait till they get paid again, or maybe don't currently have a credit card to use for ordering it & would otherwise have to wait to start it up. | |
This is the first result on Google for "free website." If you can't afford to get a membership, you can easily find a website that allows you to host information about your game, including information on how to download the client, the URL for the game's current server, and (if you know how) the same "Play Now" button that a hub would offer. From there, you could advertise your website on the BYOND forums, or any other place on the internet. Just because you don't have a hub doesn't mean you can't showcase your game - it just takes a little extra effort that any serious developer should be willing to put into their project.
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I don't think they can just put more ads on the site and expect to get more revenue just like that.
I may be wrong, but there's a limit to the revenue ads can get you. Also, the more ads, the more deterring the website is to outsiders. | |
Well I believe they only get revenue from each unique IP address per advertisement per month, but considering the ads are usually pretty unique there could be a real increase...
As for more ads deterring outsiders, it definitely is a downside, but I meant to display more ads(optionally) only to those choosing to do so & being logged in... Anyways, their increase in price & making the hub editable only for members is to try & make more income(also in hopes they have enough revenue they don't need ANY ads at all anymore) & they can run purely off membership costs instead of worrying about the best ad placements to make money off ad click revenues, this is pointless unless they get paid for views+clicks or only views for example, but it depends on what the ad provider that BYOND gets their ads from how much & how they get paid. ---I know marketing is still easily do-able even through the BYOND forums & even byond:// links could be used to directly link to a game server on forums which don't escape links... Also realistically one should use their own website & everything for more flexibility & such too & BYOND barely costs anything because their plans for a year are typical of a games usual 3 month plan, not a whole year, and their 4 years plan is going to be like a normal games yearly plan.... I myself though don't yet have a credit card/paypal account with money in it to use for registration, I have the cash but it takes time to get the card & everything, time to be approved & time to actually get the card after, and for paypal i'd have to send the money in for deposit...just a whole big thing... In the meantime one could optionally opt in for the display of more advertisements(similar to how BYOND members can opt to show no ads already or could before at least...) so those with not enough money or no current way to pay for membership & have to wait can at least try it(such an option could be similar to having a membership trial type option so you see what you could do if you had an actual membership...) I would send in money order to be able to do this but sending money & checks through the mail, well for me they've been known to get lost for months & arrive at seemingly random times, sometimes a few days sometimes a month or longer... ---So as for this, basically I know all of this already but such an option could be used for a trial of what a membership would get you & those not willing to pay or have to wait(to be payed again, or a credit card approval/mail to arrive...whatever...) then they can make sure they actually even care about membership or not if they could trial it, even if it means a lot of ads on every page.. -I believe there is an ad limit per page though, 3 or 4 for most advertisers so regardless of views/clicks that they can't just boost their revenue by displaying 20 ads on one page, even with clicks, what are the chances at least 1 of the ads or a couple wont get your attention... | |
Marketing strategies include much more than putting up a website. And chances are, a webs.com URL won't even show up in a Google listing. If it does, it will be extremely far down or require a very specific search. Also, most BYOND games will only get attention on the BYOND site. If you look at most games on any other website, they're mostly done much better than even the "Best" games on here do. BYOND games just don't appeal to many people outside of BYOND, a sad, but very true fact. Advertising outside of BYOND would almost be useless, because either A) No one will ever see it and your game will flop. or B) A lot of people will see it and try to log on in 200 - 300 player amounts, crashing the server and everyone never playing again, also making your game flop.
The BYOND site includes a very moderate amount of players who are more than willing to play the games listed, no matter their quality. It just has to interest them, which honestly isn't that hard to do. | |
If your game doesn't appeal to anyone, that's no one's problem but your own. A game can easily support 300 players with split servers and, failing that, a player cap. If your server can only hold 100 players, then only let 100 players log on. Honestly, the idea that BYOND has to be contained to BYOND's existing community is ludicrous - just because nobody else has made a commercially successful BYOND game doesn't mean that no one can.
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Solomn Architect wrote:
Also, most BYOND games will only get attention on the BYOND site. Sure. Most BYOND developers refuse to advertise their game. Not to mention, most games here are considered garbage. If you want to garner attention, then you will need to create a product that is worth downloading and playing. Don't create a game and strive to make it the best BYOND game, because those standards are rather low. Advertising outside of BYOND would almost be useless, because either A) No one will ever see it and your game will flop. or B) A lot of people will see it and try to log on in 200 - 300 player amounts, crashing the server and everyone never playing again, also making your game flop. Just a side note: no one appreciates it when a developer creates an account only to create a post about their game. TIGSource.com is a great example. Developers who have been in the community and provided decent replies to other posts, tend to receive more replies. Either way, if you provide a detailed short description and pictures, you'll get feedback. But remember, just because you created a game does not mean you're entitled to receive downloads and feedback. No one said game making and advertising was easy. It may be your hobby, but it's still work. As with B, I'd consider that your fault. Add a player limit like most online games do, heck, have multiple servers. If you somewhat expect a boost in your player base due to advertising, then you need to take the necessary measures to ensure those players have a pleasurable experience. Your mistakes should not be blamed on the players. The BYOND site includes a very moderate amount of players who are more than willing to play the games listed, no matter their quality. It just has to interest them, which honestly isn't that hard to do. Every game making tool that comes to mind does not provide a hub. Developers who use such tools release their games on the forums, which we can still do, and/or advertise elsewhere. If you spent the time to create a great game, then spending a few days to come up with a proper advertising approach should not bother you. If you quickly make a garbage game, then there is no doubt that you will not be willing to spend your time promoting the garbage. You put garbage in, you will get garbage out. Either way, the constant nagging about the hub just reinforces the fact that there should be a price to use it. It appears to be the equivalent of gold in this community. Tom and Lummox JR need revenue to support this product, the hub is in high demand. We are still getting the developer tools for FREE and we can simply post on the forums or advertise elsewhere. If your game is worth it, you will not mind. | |
Solomn Architect wrote:
Advertising outside of BYOND would almost be useless, because either A) No one will ever see it and your game will flop. NEStalgia drew in more players from a small amount of external exposure than it did from within the BYOND community. I don't know if any other BYOND games that have seriously been advertised outside of BYOND. So far it's worked 100% of the time. or B) A lot of people will see it and try to log on in 200 - 300 player amounts, crashing the server and everyone never playing again, also making your game flop. Not all games are the MMO- kind where you connect to one central server. Games that can be downloaded, run locally, and hosted by players won't have this problem. You can also take this approach to MMO- type games with dedicated servers - have each player download a "game" that essentially just displays the hub entry to the player. It just shows them a list of available servers and they can pick whichever they'd like. That way the new players aren't all hitting the same server. The BYOND site includes a very moderate amount of players who are more than willing to play the games listed, no matter their quality. It just has to interest them, which honestly isn't that hard to do. Many BYOND users are only interested in anime games. If you look at the list of hosted games that are visible (so it doesn't include fan games, rips, etc.) and add up all the player counts, you currently get somewhere around 295 players (in 57 games), even though there are 3854 people online. Most BYOND users don't try most BYOND games. | |
I'm not saying it's the greatest idea in the world, but if it allows the developers of the software, and site more freedoms to work on it, instead of worrying about money, I'm all for it, after all I'd rather see an updated cheap project than a dead free one.