Tom wrote:

Tiberath wrote:

The one thing that I'm curious about, and I apologise if it's been asked already, but is the text format stuff all still there and working?

You mean the ability to grab info from the website in text-format? That works at least for the hub, but shouldn't be a problem to put in other places.

I don't think much has changed for text format stuff for people's member pages, besides for Blog stuff, so that should still work fine. I was wondering if such a format could be applied to everywhere on the site (or atleast forum posts, and the main games/resources page). I actually wrote a program to get basic info from single forum posts, but I guess I'll have to edit that to match the new page layout, unless you decide to do the save-file text-format thing for them too.

I know this is probably not the place for this but, is there any background information on the 494 beta build? I have already found a few bugs with maptext... etc.

Tom wrote:

SilkWizard wrote:

Without forcing your cut of subscription revenue and without providing a very clear set of Membership benefits that people really want, you'll be stuck collecting donations until you eventually run out of money/patience.

Well, I think we're really on the same page. After all, the whole point of the Members-only hub system is to provide what is hopefully a valuable feature at a fair price. Up until now, Membership has been largely perks, but (IMO at least), the hub is a pretty useful system, and one that is only going to get better with this site update.

So the idea is that we are in fact transitioning from a donation-based approach to selling a product that people want.

- See the only thing that makes me wonder how well this is going to work, is that there are people like me on BYOND.

When I first started BYOND (when I was a teen) I was working on developing games and helping other games and blah, blah, blah, and didn't have a membership. As time went on and I wanted to support BYOND (And not going to lie have a useful blog) I decided to get a membership (I was also now old enough to afford one as well). I bought the membership but over time slowly stopped developing or working on games, and focused more so on using the blog because it was really the only perk of being a member. I continued to update my membership because I wanted to actively use and keep that blog, plus the few games I played offered member bonus's but I didn't play often so it really didn't affect anything.

Now, blogs will be gone soon, and I don't make games (At least I haven't made any games yet), so I really don't need a membership (except to support BYOND). The main perk of having a membership has shifted from anyone on BYOND to specifically game makers on BYOND. If I am not making a game, I have no need for a hub or the storage space. So I have no need for a membership. If that makes any sense?

This doesn't mean I won't continue to support BYOND by buying memberships, but I am sure others are in the same predicament as they don't develop games and therefore don't need a hub and therefore don't need a membership to continue to enjoy BYOND. So perhaps it might be a good idea to have some more member benefits that reach regular non-developing members, to continue to have them buying memberships.

Similarly to the blog's we used to have I would assume any regular non-developer benefit would have to do with the website itself, but I don't have any ideas as to what those benefits could be.

That's just my thought on the subject. Thought I would weigh in and see what Tom thought.

PopLava wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something here. Is it possible that we have non-paying members who stand a chance of making succesful flash games that draw attention?

Initially, the flash system will work on our site, so the proposed members-only hub system will effectively require membership to run a flash game.

However, I thought you were proposing that the flash client only be accessible to member _players_, which is a much bigger market. That is in fact something that I have considered, but with some exclusions; I don't think developers would welcome the Flash if they knew it had the pretty limited audience of BYOND Members. Some possible options are 1) preview or interstitial ads for non-Members, 2) limited #non-member players supported on Flash servers, 3) developer pays a licensing fee to allow non-Members (and take game off-site).

I've given these ideas some thought but I want to cross that bridge when we get to it. The bottom line is that with this update, Membership has more value, and we hope to add even more to it in the form of useful features such as those outlined above (greater access to games being of course the grand-daddy of all Member perks). As I've probably said ten times, ideally I'd like to survive just off Membership sales, cut out ads, and let developers keep all of their profits while still using our convenient account system. Maybe that is a pipe dream.

Honestly, Memberships don't do too badly even the way they are right now, where they are giving away very little and are more like a donation model. I mean, they make way more than I think they should-- just not enough to sustain two people full time., The very fact that I'm surprised they sell is a good clue that the business model isn't stable, though. But I wanted to mention it because it's not like what we're trying to do is intractable-- we just need to increase sales three- or four-fold to make this project sustainable. That could be done through greater traffic or through added value, and I'm hoping this update is a good start to that.

I'm not sure whether this has been addressed or asked yet, but I'll ask it again, anyway.

When is the update going to take effect?

Tom wrote:

PopLava wrote:

Maybe I'm missing something here. Is it possible that we have non-paying members who stand a chance of making succesful flash games that draw attention?

ahhh... That gets me straightened out. I missed that "dot" in the grand scheme of things. :) As for what the future holds, I really appreciate your take on the "preferred" approaches so you have my support(+1) going into the new year. :)

@Tom: Would that also imply a faster pager, or did you only upgrade the machines that host the site?

Oasiscircle wrote:

@Tom: Would that also imply a faster pager, or did you only upgrade the machines that host the site?

We updated (or are in the process of updating) everywhere. The pager is probably slow through software, though, because it uses a polling system. There should be less frequent lag though.

I just had a thought thinking about App Stores. I now have a Kindle Fire tablet and thought about designing a few apps for the Amazon App Store. However, the developer program is definitely more costly than the $24 BYOND Membership since the price is like $99 per year (though supposedly for a limited time, it is waived for the first year). Probably cheaper on the Android Market though.

Even with the price increase, it is still a great price.

Lige wrote:

Now that a membership is required to create a hub, will the submission guidelines still stand?

I believe so because the only people who could submit hubs for listing in the first place were those with memberships.