Missed that, thanks.
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Instead of random "themes", why don't you require gameplay/design mechanics? HUDs, macros, pixel movement, using only a map control on your interface, functional tutorials and other such requirements would probably be more inspiring and result in more worthwhile products than requiring Honey Badgers...
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Falacy wrote:
Instead of random "themes", why don't you require game mechanics? HUDs, macros, pixel movement, a functional tutorial and the like would probably be more inspiring and result in more worthwhile products than requiring Honey Badgers... The themes are put in place to weed out most of those who may create a full fledged game prior to the event. | |
Calus CoRPS wrote:
The themes are put in place to weed out most of those who may create a full fledged game prior to the event.lol I'd be willing to bet 99.9% of the games on BYOND would fail every one of those design mechanics I listed, and that 100% would fail at least one of them. You could always just include the themes on top of said requirements. Though, I find the entire GiaD concept somewhat odd to begin with. You're forcing people to rush out a product, which is going to result in an even lower than usual quality game for BYOND. Instead, there could be a decent time period, but with some sort of gimmick, ie: Make a game that uses only 1 button. This would allow entries to maintain simplicity, while at the same time giving developers a chance to focus on a higher quality end result. Just my 10 cents. | |
I think GiaD is a unique contest that tests a developers ability in programming, creativity, and time management. Also, not all games need the "mechanics" you proposed, but if those were all requirements you'd have 10-15 games that all look the same. The themes allow people to interpret as they wish, and the judging holds them to a standard. I'm not sure why there is a complaint.
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CauTi0N wrote:
Also, not all games need the "mechanics" you proposed, but if those were all requirements you'd have 10-15 games that all look the same.Practically all commercial games feature those "mechanics", few if any of them look the same. Its true that not all games need all of those mechanics, however, the opposite is more of a problem around BYOND. Most games do need those mechanics, and very very few actually offer any of them. Also, it wasn't so much a complaint as a suggestion for future events. | |
Falacy wrote:
CauTi0N wrote: Mechanics restrict gameplay whereas a theme directs it. I think, given 24 hours, the challenge of coming up with something novel given the theme restriction is more interesting than whether someone is good enough to create a "commercial game" in that time. Let alone that some people might not be skilled enough to implement a specific mechanic. With a theme, it's everybody's game. | |
I'd like to thank Falacy for taking the time to make his posts noticeable so I don't accidentally read any of them.
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"24 hour period of programming". Does this mean I can touch up my maps and whatnot outside of the 24 hour period and I won't be effected?
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Ganing wrote:
"24 hour period of programming". Does this mean I can touch up my maps and whatnot outside of the 24 hour period and I won't be effected? No. 24hrs to make the whole game. | |
Welp I've officially finished!
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Ganing wrote:
Welp I've officially finished! Congratz! | |
Finally finished and sent the game! =D I hope it suits the theme and general rules. xD
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Falacy wrote:
You're forcing people to rush out a product, which is going to result in an even lower than usual quality game for BYOND. In my experience, the problem with BYOND isn't that we have low quality games. The problem is that we don't have games. We have tech demos, sandboxes, and odd collections of maps and verbs. By giving people only one day to make a game, developers are forced to focus on Core Gameplay and Polish. As for the theme, it is there, mostly, to prevent previously made games from being entered into the event. "Pixel Movement" was very close to being a theme, but was ruled out because everyone has been doing pixel movement projects lately. It would have been trivially easy to claim that your latest pixel movement project was started just for the GiaD. And then do you know what would have happened? These projects would never have been submitted. BYOND developers are too obsessed with making the greatest thing ever, with creating an epic MMMMMMMMMORG. These games are never finished. We don't have professional teams of game developers working with the greatest tools here. What we have are single amateur developers. The GiaD forces these developers to work on a scale they can deal with. The result is a crop of actually fun games, and one or two great games, like Turtle Towers or Plunder Gnome. As Toadfish said: Mechanics restrict gameplay whereas a theme directs it | |
IainPeregrine wrote:
The problem is that we don't have games. We have tech demos, sandboxes, and odd collections of maps and verbs.Visible verbs are bad, plain and simple. However, a "sandbox tech demo" sounds like it would be amazing fun. Minecraft? The only problem with that, on BYOND, is that the "tech" available with this engine isn't exactly impressive. By giving people only one day to make a game, developers are forced to focus on Core Gameplay and Polish.If you're looking for something as simple as Dot Shot, where the only mechanics are Move & Shoot, with single colored boxes as graphics, then maybe. However, to have any game that entertains people for more than 10 minutes, with any sort of appealing graphics, I think you're going to quickly run out of time. And your "themes" about Honey Badgers aren't exactly limiting people to the desirably simple mechanics that you seem to be hoping for... How long did it take you to make Casual Quest, for example? That game is fundamentally simple, but it probably too far longer than a day to make, and it still doesn't really offer any long-term appeal to players. As for the theme, it is there, mostly, to prevent previously made games from being entered into the event.This is an understandable concept, I just think there could be better ways to handle such restrictions, or that the "in a day" concept could be removed entirely. And then do you know what would have happened? These projects would never have been submitted.Why wouldn't they have been submitted? The GiaD forces these developers to work on a scale they can deal with.The problem is, your GiaD contest isn't getting them out of the mindset of making some massive MMORPG, its just telling them to make a massive MMORPG, but to make it about Honey Badgers, and to make it all in a single day. As Toadfish said:The mechanics that I suggested shouldn't restrict gameplay. Most of them shouldn't even effect overall gameplay concepts. How many of the submitted games are using some noob looking stat panel to display information that would be better presented as a HUD? Pixel movement can't possibly be more restricting than tile based movement, and could even be extended into tile based movement if they still wanted it for some reason. Macros are what make a game an actual game, have you ever seen a legitimate/commercial game where gameplay functioned by clicking a box full of words? Tutorials shouldn't be restricting, they should only be explaining whats already there in an intuitive manner. Using only a map control could be a negative for the loss of a quick output, but even that could be remedied with a HUD version of messages. The gimmick suggestion I made, where games can only use a single input, for example, would be somewhat restricting. However, your goal here actually does seem to be such restrictions, but instead of listing them straightforwardly, you limit entrants to a short development period in an attempt to have them force such restrictions on themselves... | |
Falacy wrote:
This is an understandable concept, I just think there could be better ways to handle such restrictions, or that the "in a day" concept could be removed entirely. I encourage you to read this article. https://docs.google.com/viewer?url=http://www.orcutt.net/ othercontent/sfds.pdf&pli=1 I feel the contest does a fantastic job of finding developers an idea that they can work with. Generally, GiaD games that are successful will continue on to become full games. Check Ganing's page for example. | |
Can I just say, I made an entire FF1 clone in a day, with a minigame and a final boss back in 2009.
Sure, it isn't particularly captivating, but it was a finished product, an RPG at that, done within 24 hours and has potential to be updated in future. Finishing games is ultimately BYOND's worst problem, games just don't get finished enough. Planning a game and getting it done within 24 hours is the quickest way you will reinforce that idea that development needs to be planned with a fixed timescale. I believe that at least my pre-planning has improved greatly from contesting in GiaD's and will continue to do so if available. | |
This is my first year competing, and I definitely agree with Acebloke. If it weren't for this competition, I'd have nothing new to show today. My planning and time management skills have greatly improved since beginning. My game won't be a high quality game by the end of the competition but I've got something started that will be much closer to polish and completion because of the time restriction.
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Acebloke wrote:
Can I just say, I made an entire FF1 clone in a dayBy "clone" you mean an actual replica of the game? Or a crappy BYOND fan-game version? On screen messages, screen effects, turn based battles, shops/equipment, classes/leveling/skills, screen based menus with a pointer controlled by the keyboard? If you made a true version of FF1 in a single day, then that's impressive. | |
IainPeregrine wrote: