If you've ever played any of the following:
DotA
League of Legends
Heroes of Newerth
Bloodline Champions
Avalon Heroes
Rise of Immortals
Then you probably know what I'm talking about. These communities are utterly brutal and even that is probably an understatement. I'm also not referring to the way the people play, but their attitude and level of respect.
For one, these communities have zero and I do mean zero tolerance for newbies or players who just have no idea what they're doing. The moment you make a mistake is the moment you get verbally torn to shreds by your teammates. They will curse you out, tell you to go "**** your mother", and then initiate a vote kick to have you removed from the game. I kid you not.
What makes it worse is that they don't even bother to help you out. I was playing some support character in DotA but really didn't know if I should take the sides or the middle, so I asked a guy on my team. He responds "What do you think?" Not only that, once they see that 1 or 2 of their teammates are noobs, they either vote to concede the game or just rage quit.
Now there are furious players in just about every game, but they seem to be even more prevalent in DotA clones. It's like they took all the sore-loser cry babies in the world and stuffed them into one game. These players absolutely hate losing and will blame everything in the world except themselves for their team's failure.
Possibly the only positive thing about these games is that, since the players are like this, games can be extremely competitive which is a good thing. There's nothing like PvPing with people who want to win as much as you do - the battles turn out more fun and challenging and you also get better even if you happen to lose.
I just think the playerbase of these games need to relax more. When I'm playing DotA, I try my best to win, but mainly I'm just playing to have fun. I couldn't care less who wins, and if I do win, then "Go me!" There is no reason to tell a player to "go play in traffic" just because they're new and died 2 or 3 times. As long as they're not doing it on purpose, it's not cheating, and is therefore fair. If the players helped and gave tips to the newbies as much as they insulted and humiliated them, they might actually catch on pretty fast and end up helping you win the game.
ID:115720
 Jul 11 2011, 8:18 am
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Truuuuuue
Epic faceplam of da four winds, dood. | |
I'm a newb myself, but I don't feed which is usually the main thing that pisses the players off. I know how to stay back, hug the tower, heal my teammates, and harass the enemies. I usually don't focus too much on kills, but rather keeping my teammates alive and debuffing the enemies to cause them to die quicker. I leave the death blows to everyone else. ;D
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For one, these communities have zero and I do mean zero tolerance for newbies or players who just have no idea what they're doing. I think its interesting that you say that because BYOND is so far on the other extreme that its also problematic. Being too nice to people who don't know what they're doing gets the hub filled up with garbage games (ex: it has a say verb and attack verb? Yep, we'll consider that a "game"). If people take it too seriously its not fun, but if they don't take it seriously enough then you're not really playing a game. I am not familiar with any of the games you mentioned, but this is why I think that most BYOND games should have single player modes. Without that, its not worth the trouble of trying to play most games because they're too confusing to figure out without being too much of a burden on the other players. | |
DotA games are boring anyways.
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LordAndrew wrote:
DotA games are boring anyways. It's only boring because of the complainers. If everybody would just chill instead of rage quitting or cursing each other out, you could have a pretty good game. Honestly, I'd rather have a feeder on my team than someone who disconnects in the middle of the game just because player x died 3 times. In just about every game, the worst thing you can do is give up. | |
These games have unfriendly communities for one reason. Losing is not fun, especially when it's not your fault.
In your example where you asked what lane you should take. You should have known this. You should not expect your team to have to tell you how to play, you should take the time to learn this. There is thousands of guides you can find on google in seconds. DotA in particular has a very steep leaning curve. If you go into the game not knowing anything, then you're going to do badly. If you do badly then expect your team to get mad at you, because you have just gone and wasted their time. Sure, these games have absolutely terrible communities. But most of the time this is because someone has incited their rage. Don't make them mad, and they wont get mad. | |
The Magic Man wrote:
These games have unfriendly communities for one reason. Losing is not fun, especially when it's not your fault. That's a matter of opinion. In your example where you asked what lane you should take. You should have known this. Probably, but how many games have you read guides before playing? I'm sure a lot of people jump right into a game and just start playing - no one expects to have to read a guide or tutorial unless its put into the game itself. You should not expect your team to have to tell you how to play, you should take the time to learn this. I didn't ask how to play, I asked which lane to go in - a question that takes less than 3 seconds to answer. Responding with a smart remark only makes the situation worse. There is thousands of guides you can find on google in seconds. Again, there is nothing to indicate that I would need to read guides to play DotA. I don't read guides everytime I jump into a new FPS or RPG - why would I do any different for DotA? I can't tell how difficult a game is until I play it. DotA in particular has a very steep leaning curve. If you go into the game not knowing anything, then you're going to do badly. If you do badly then expect your team to get mad at you, because you have just gone and wasted their time. Most games have rankings ( atleast the ones I played ) that attempt to give some sort of idea of how good a player is. I usually go into "newb" rooms that actually end up having experienced players in them anyway, and they still complain about any little mistake. Whats the point of putting yourself on a team with newbs, and then complaining about it? More importantly, what do you get out of complaining? The games I win are always the teams that don't start fussing at each other. As soon as one person slips up, another one calls them a name and now they're busy typing / starting vote kicks while me and the other 3 players are trying to maintain the lanes. Then they wonder why the game is falling apart, and they disconnect. I guarantee if you shut up and play, you'll do better. Typing nonsense benefits no one except the opposing team. Sure, these games have absolutely terrible communities. But most of the time this is because someone has incited their rage. Don't make them mad, and they wont get mad. It's not a valid reason to get mad. It's one thing to be competitive, but it's another to be a sore-loser. There is no justifying one of those "I must win every single time!" attitudes. Those are the players that cause the most trouble. You'd be surprised of the reaction you would get from: "Try to stay near the tower so they can't keep ganking you." as opposed to "fking noob keeps feeding them, gtfo" Quitters/complainers ruin just as many games as feeders do. I've lost about a dozen games just because players disconnect, making it 5v4 then eventually 5v3 once someone else ragequits. They have no reason to get mad - they're doing the same thing newbies are doing just in a different way. | |
Welcome to competitive gaming.
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helo
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There is one small problem you are forgetting about DotA.
It is a mod, not a full game. A lot of features you want cannot be implemented into the game because of this. Tutorials, help and guides, rankings and so on. None of this can easily be put into the game. Anyway. DotA in particular is a very complex game. There is over 100 heroes to pick from, each with 4 abilities. You need to know what all of these do, how they work, what ranges, numbers (such as damage), cooldowns and whatever other effects they have. Someone once told me, if you have not played at least 500-1000 games in DotA, you should have a guide open at all times, and when playing a new hero, you should at least spend a few hours reading up on that hero and how to play as it. If not, you will do bad. And then people will get mad. You also DID ask how to play. You asked what lane you should be in. You should have known this, as you should have learned about each lane and their significance, as well as things like what heroes are good in what lanes and what lane combos work well together. As for your comment on guides. I have already explained that DotA is a very, very complex game. Much more complex than RPGs or FPS games. When you play a RTS game, do you instantly know or get told of every strategy in the game? No. You have to learn, and the main way of doing this is with external guides. The same applies here. The DotA community is rather weird in how things are named. A "newb" in DotA is not a new player. Just one that is not good. They are expected to know how to play the game, and how to not totally suck. A "newb" is basically anyone who has played 50-500 or so games. It's weird, but that is just how the community works. Being forced to play an unfun game that lasts potentially an hour because someone else ruined it sounds like a valid reason to be mad if you ask me. Sure, I prefer winning to losing, but even if I am winning and the game is not fun, I wont be happy. People are not getting mad at you because they want to win, they're getting mad at you because you are ruining their fun (and for some people, winning is fun). One final thing. DotA has something called "meta-game". Basically, over the years, the strategy within the game has been finely tuned and balanced in a certain way, which a lot of players have learned. This makes learning the game even harder. Not only do you need to learn controls, and all the info about the game. But you also need to learn to play it in a very, very specific way. Basically, people have figured out the perfect way to play the game. You also have to learn how to play it in this perfect way. | |
The Magic Man wrote:
if you have not played at least 500-1000 games in DotA, you should have a guide open at all times I have a feeling that won't go over well... "Them: omg, ET u noob, y did u do that?" "ET: hold on, lemme check my guide..." =) In your example where you asked what lane you should take. You should have known this. It seems like the original point is that people respond negatively to any question, even when plenty of legitimate questions could be asked. There's a big difference between asking "what strategy should we use?" and asking "how do I play this game?" It sounds like this is a game where: 1. Winning is the only way to have fun. 2. One player making a couple of bad moves to start the game means certain failure. Together, this means that people will quit early if they sense they might lose because they won't have any fun. Look at games that have existed for a long time (sports especially), a few things are generally true: 1. There can be enjoyable parts of a game, even if you end up losing. 2. No matter how badly you play in the first half of the game, you can come back in the second half and end up winning. For whatever sport you like there are probably dozens of examples. If a game has these qualities people won't give up so easily. | |
The Magic Man wrote:
Anyway. DotA in particular is a very complex game. There is over 100 heroes to pick from, each with 4 abilities. You need to know what all of these do, how they work, what ranges, numbers (such as damage), cooldowns and whatever other effects they have. Exactly, but coming into DotA first time, I had no idea. From screenshots, it just looks like an RTS. I happen to have played several RTS games, I had no reason to believe I would need to read guides for hours before jumping in. You also DID ask how to play. You asked what lane you should be in. You should have known this, as you should have learned about each lane and their significance, as well as things like what heroes are good in what lanes and what lane combos work well together. Asking which lane to go in is not the same as asking how to play the game. Laning is one of many different aspects of DotA. Not only that, you shouldn't pick the same lane every time you play. Your choice should change with every game because your teammates and enemies change with every game, making the question even more relevant. As for your comment on guides. I have already explained that DotA is a very, very complex game. Much more complex than RPGs or FPS games. No, but I also don't read a guide for hours before playing an RTS. I know from previous experience that RTS games basically consist of gathering resources, making units and buildings, and attacking the opponent or controlling areas. I don't read a guide, all I need to know are the hotkeys and I'm good to go. And because DotA looks very similar to an RTS, I thought I could do the same and I'm sure several other people do as well. The DotA community is rather weird in how things are named. A "newb" in DotA is not a new player. Just one that is not good. They are expected to know how to play the game, and how to not totally suck. A "newb" is basically anyone who has played 50-500 or so games. Craziest thing I ever heard. Being forced to play an unfun game that lasts potentially an hour because someone else ruined it sounds like a valid reason to be mad if you ask me. That would only be valid if the person had done it on purpose. If a person on my team sucks because they're new, then what is there to be angry over? To me, a "ruined" game is one where a player is cheating to win, not if a player on my team sucks. People are not getting mad at you because they want to win, they're getting mad at you because you are ruining their fun (and for some people, winning is fun). That's pretty much a false statement. Even the actual experienced players get yelled at for mistakes. Just earlier today I was playing and a guy was getting bashed for not using his ulti to finish off a player. He didn't suck like me, he just happened to not use it for whatever reason. Anyway, it shows that its all about winning, because missing out on one kill is not "ruining their fun", its making it harder for them to win. I know because I used to be the same way when I was younger. I would play Marvel Heroes with my cousin and become infuriated whenever I would lose, but I would have a complete blast when I was beating him. That's the definition of a sore-loser: someone who just simply can't deal with losing. http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=sore%20loser I have yet to be on a losing team, but see great sportsmanship. Maybe 1 or 2 people will say "GG", but the rest just disconnect as soon as the game ends, usually insulting their teammates before they do and even whining about the game afterwards in the lobby. Sometimes its quite funny actually. If you only have fun when you're winning, then you shouldn't play games, because guess what? Nobody wins all the time. Not only that, a game would be terribly boring if you won all the time. The only thing that makes a game fun is the fact that you're presented with a challenge. A guy that was basically invincible and winning every single game effortlessly would become miserable and probably just move on to a new game. | |
I can definitely vouch for Legends of League, just the other day I got yelled at for not defending another player when he and a few others were getting masscred by the other team. Being a newbie in a place full of experienced people isn't a good feeling, kind of hurts my pride when I get killed. But I generally play the game to have fun, which is what it was made for and I understand that a lot of people are competitive over it but what's one game lose going to do? One thing is for sure, these players aren't afraid of telling you what's on their mind, newbie or not. Practically had to calm my teammate down because I failed to defend him. lol
Sorry for the wall of text that I made. (: | |
PeleTheFireDeity wrote:
I can vouch for Legends of Leagues. Just the other day I got yelled at for not defending another player when they were getting massacred by the other team. I'm just a newbie and still working on getting better at the game. One thing is for sure, these players aren't afraid of telling you what's on their mind. I had to tell the guy who was yelling at me to stop raging over it. Haha, telling them to stop raging makes them rage even more. There was one guy yesterday that was typing soooooo much it was ridiculous. Honestly, how can you bash me for sucking when you're spending most of your time ranting? You're not contributing by angrily chatting the entire game, meaning you're just as useless as the people you insult. Besides, sometimes you shouldn't defend players. It's better for one player to feed than two. Being a new player, you probably made the right decision to run unless you had some stun skill that could have allowed them to get away, and even then that would be risky. "Massacred" sounds like there were 2 or 3 enemies on him and in that case there is usually not much you can do except save yourself. Ganks are really hard to get out of unless you completely know what you're doing. | |
EmpirezTeam wrote:
PeleTheFireDeity wrote: Yeah, I was mainly trying to save my own skin here while trying to contribute to the effort of winning the game. When there's two to three other experienced players that know how to take down your champion, on your tail. You don't have much of a chance, specially when they stun you. I wasn't about to explain that to him over the game. lol Would be different if they were just bots, but these are real people. | |
Captain Teemo on duty!
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The games themselves are really competitive, and because of how the community acts it spreads to other members in order to discourage new players from playing and slowing down their winning.