ID:109672
 
TPRoC wrote a list few days ago of a list of things people on BYOND should stop doing. I think everyone should make one. Here is mine:

1. Making Fan-games
You've heard it before, you're hearing it again. Let it go, please. As a matter of fact, with the new site changes, now is an even worse time to begin working on an anime game because it won't even be featured. If it somehow manages to get really popular and IP holders feel like they're losing money, they can and will shut it down. With an original game, everything belongs to you. No one can tell you what to do with it. It will be featured on the front page of BYOND which generates more traffic. Original games will also be more appealing to people outside of BYOND. I don't think trailers of little people with Vegeta-hairstyles punching pbags is going to be very impressive. However, something like this will definitely spark people's interest.

2. Making Boring Login Systems
Believe it or not, people judge games the same way they judge people: in the first few moments. That means that if you don't make good first impressions on players, you're losing dozens and maybe even hundreds of people. Your title screen should look nothing like this:



It's something I made in about 30 seconds, yet it looks exactly like the title screens that are used in over half of the games on BYOND, specifically fan-games. Here is a person who is doing right ( click to enlarge ):

RPG Sweeper by Forum Account

Neat graphics, animated background, the font matches the retro atmosphere of the game, simple instructions, and a smooth fade transition from title screen to game with sound. Perfecto.

Make your games look inviting and feel alive when the player first logs in. Have things moving, maybe some epic music, don't use generic words like "New, Load, Del". Presentation is important!

3. Not Advertising
Why is it that Silk Wizard is the only person I see organizing a promotion campaign for his game? There are several great games on BYOND - NEStalgia isn't the only one. Decadence and Casual Quest aren't going to promote themselves. You should be scrambling to get all your friends to get the game seen. Get it on Machinima, get it on every forum you can find. Send out emails. Make trailers. More people = more money. You wouldn't have subscription options on your game if you didn't want any, so get your game promoted so you can make some! The more quality games get noticed, the more potential developers we'll get and then BYOND will really start being able to compete with the competition.

4. Electing Wild Team Members
I like the Silk Games Staff. There are only about 4 or 5 guys, right? It's not a game where the developer is tossing out moderator positions left and right. Your game doesn't need 20 moderators unless it's bringing in hundreds of players. Seriously, if your average player count is like 10 or 20, there is no reason you should have 30 admins. It only creates more conflict between player and administration which means more problems for YOU to fix since you're the man in charge. Don't give someone admin because you know them in real life, or because you became friends with them on some WOTS rip. Give admin because the person is a responsible team member who can do a great job at maintaining the peace in your game.

5. Not Encouraging And Helping Others To Be Successful
I think a big problem with BYOND is that people aren't friends. Whether it's because they're jealous or just don't like each other, people that could do a lot to help choose not to. There are a lot of people that will be able to help out with the NEStalgia promotion campaign, but because they hold grudges and would rather see a game by Silk fail, they'll just sit back hoping it doesn't work out so they can laugh at him.

Helping NEStalgia doesn't just help Silk. It helps the entire website. NEStalgia traffic is also potential traffic for you and your games. It's also, like I previously mentioned, attractive to great game developers who haven't discovered BYOND yet.

So, if Silk or anyone is trying to get their game out there, whether you like the person or not, help out. Usually it's just something as simple as copy/pasting a link on a forum, or posting a video on your blog. If you don't, you're a hypocrite when you claim you want to see BYOND succeed.

6. Whining About The Site Changes
Fan-games and especially ripped games are being hidden which is something that should have happened years ago. As a matter of fact, it shouldn't even be allowed to be on the site period. You don't have a right to post your game on BYOND.com because this website doesn't belong to you. It's called a privilege. We don't need any more of your sob stories about how anime games brought in so much traffic to BYOND, or how the people in fan-games are some of the most amazing people you've ever met. No one cares. If you don't like the website, guess what? There is this thing called Google, and through Google searches, you can find tons of other websites to post your game on or you can even create your own website yourself for FREE. So if you choose to stay here, on a website no one is begging you to stay on, then don't complain.
Galactic Soldier wrote:
fack u

Make a list now. Or is your blog banned or something?
:D
I always love when people say "no one advertises BYOND games"! It is almost like no one here browses websites outside of BYOND.

I've actually seen plenty of games advertised outside of BYOND, on various websites.
The most successful was probably Space Station 13, but I have also seen various Final Fantasy games (I always get them mixed up), Decadence, and several more I am almost definitely forgetting about. I have also tried it myself.
They have mixed success (with my own games, I have attracted as few as less than 10 people, but one time I had forums with over 3000 registered members in a period of about a month), but from everything I have seen the key to success is to not mention 5 little letters. Those letters are BYOND. (BYOND just has a bad reputation, and mentioning it is almost always going to be a bad thing to do)

But yeah, people saying BYOND games need to advertise more really need to go and look around the web a bit more, because plenty of them have tried already.
Except, Forum_account didn't create a Minesweeper game. There is a difference between a game that is similar to an existing game, and a game that is an exact copy or replica of something.

In other words, a Dragon Ball fan game is different from a game in which you fly around and shoot beams out of your hand.
The Magic Man wrote:
I always love when people say "no one advertises BYOND games"! It is almost like no one here browses websites outside of BYOND.

I've actually seen plenty of games advertised outside of BYOND, on various websites.
The most successful was probably Space Station 13, but I have also seen various Final Fantasy games (I always get them mixed up), Decadence, and several more I am almost definitely forgetting about. I have also tried it myself.
They have mixed success (with my own games, I have attracted as few as less than 10 people, but one time I had forums with over 3000 registered members in a period of about a month), but from everything I have seen the key to success is to not mention 5 little letters. Those letters are BYOND. (BYOND just has a bad reputation, and mentioning it is almost always going to be a bad thing to do)

But yeah, people saying BYOND games need to advertise more really need to go and look around the web a bit more, because plenty of them have tried already.

Maybe I didn't word things right.

When I say promotion, I mean real actual promotion. I'm aware of games being on other forums. But none of them are still putting forth the amount of effort Silk Games is. Linking to the game on forums is good, but it goes byond that.
Developers should stop posting What other developers do until they finish a game.

My only thing.
buy me a membership and i'll make a list lol
Ryan Deux wrote:
Developers should stop posting What other developers do until they finish a game.

My only thing.

Just because TPRoC hasn't finished a game doesn't mean he doesn't know what he is talking about.
EmpirezTeam wrote:
Maybe I didn't word things right.

When I say promotion, I mean real actual promotion. I'm aware of games being on other forums. But none of them are still putting forth the amount of effort Silk Games is. Linking to the game on forums is good, but it goes byond that.

Ever heard of a little game called Barkleys Shut Up and Jam: Gaiden?
It has been downloaded millions of times, it's youtube trailer has hundreds of thousands of downloads, it has been reviews on 1up, it has been features on TV and in various PC game magazines.
It is no joke to say this game is bigger and more popular than every BYOND game combined.

Want to know how it became so big and popular? It originally started off with being posted on a few forums.

Ever heard of a little game called Minecraft? You know, the one with over 1 million people who bought it?
It became popular due to being posted on a single message board (4chans /v/).

Sure, having a "proper advertising campaign" might be a good idea, but the vast majority of people don't know enough about marketing to even do this, and the vast majority of games never had one of these.

Don't underestimate the power of people. Post your game on a few forums, if it genuinely interests people, it will spread like wild fire.
Neblim, I wasn't even using RPG Sweeper as an example for the types of games people should make. I mentioned it for having a good title screen. For the love of God, try reading other people's posts if you're going to demand they read yours.
Decadence and Casual Quest aren't going to promote themselves. You should be scrambling to get all your friends to get the game seen.

uh, SAx has advertised Decadence; just because you personally don't witness it doesn't it mean it's never happened. IainPeregrine really doesn't care for trying to expose his game to the world; at this point he's more concerned with writing, not game development/promotion, so it doesn't really make any sense at all to try to use him as an example.

There are a lot of people that will be able to help out with the NEStalgia promotion campaign, but because they hold grudges and would rather see a game by Silk fail, they'll just sit back hoping it doesn't work out so they can laugh at him

...why should people with a personal dislike of someone advertise that person's game? that makes no sense at all. the only possible reason they'd want to do that is if they have interest in seeing BYOND in general succeed; in that case, either A) they do advertise the game (see next paragraph), or B) they don't enjoy the game itself, so they have no reason to expose that specific game to outsiders; they'd rather boast of a different game's merits (such as Decadence).

personally, i did attempt to spread news of NEStalgia's release to others, because i found it a well-designed game. i was met only with "this game is shit" and "why the fuck can people kill me repeatedly inside the starting town? screw this" so i stopped. not to mention i think i was banned from NEStalgia at some point (i don't know/can't remember why); if the creator is directly banning you from their game when you haven't even logged into it in months, that's not really a heartfelt letter requesting that you advertise their game for them.
The Magic Man wrote:
EmpirezTeam wrote:
Maybe I didn't word things right.

When I say promotion, I mean real actual promotion. I'm aware of games being on other forums. But none of them are still putting forth the amount of effort Silk Games is. Linking to the game on forums is good, but it goes byond that.

Ever heard of a little game called Barkleys Shut Up and Jam: Gaiden?
It has been downloaded millions of times, it's youtube trailer has hundreds of thousands of downloads, it has been reviews on 1up, it has been features on TV and in various PC game magazines.
It is no joke to say this game is bigger and more popular than every BYOND game combined.

Want to know how it became so big and popular? It originally started off with being posted on a few forums.

Ever heard of a little game called Minecraft? You know, the one with over 1 million people who bought it?
It became popular due to being posted on a single message board (4chans /v/).

Sure, having a "proper advertising campaign" might be a good idea, but the vast majority of people don't know enough about marketing to even do this, and the vast majority of games never had one of these.

Don't underestimate the power of people. Post your game on a few forums, if it genuinely interests people, it will spread like wild fire.

Indeed, it went from the forums to eventually websites and all over YouTube. It didn't just stay as a link on forums, which is my point. If you want your game to get seen, it eventually has to get to other places besides just a forum.
Neblim wrote:
EmpirezTeam wrote:
Neblim, I wasn't even using RPG Sweeper as an example for the types of games people should make. I mentioned it for having a good title screen. For the love of God, try reading other people's posts if you're going to demand they read yours.

So to be clear, you're admitting that RPG Sweeper is a fan game? Don't promote fan games if you're not, even if it's a title screen. Don't you know, that's bad juju according to a lot of people on here, like yourself.

No, it's not a fan-game. Graphics don't determine whether or not a game is a fan-game.
Neblim wrote:
EmpirezTeam wrote:

No, it's not a fan-game. Graphics don't determine whether or not a game is a fan-game or not.

Wow, that's totally bullshit. It doesn't exclude it either as it is a "derivative". You need to learn more about infringing on other people's material before you start making claims like this.

So if I made an action game that happened to have a Pokeball in it, is it a Pokemon fan-game? Because it's basically what RPG Sweeper is. A game that happens to have a few graphics from Dragon Warrior.

Is DBO II not a fan-game? It has original graphics that were not ripped so obviously it's not a fan-game, right?

The only one producing bullshit here is you.

[Edit] You're right, it is infringement, but just because you infringed or used copyrighted material doesn't make whatever game you produced a "fan-game". If I use an image of Gamabunta in my first-person shooter MMO, my game isn't a Naruto fan-game. It's a game that's using copyrighted material.
I like how some people on this site went from trying to stop rips; to trying to stop fan-made games. Some developers don't do them for the future benefits but simply as a hobby.
Neblim:

You are being idiotic. RPG Sweeper is barely a fangame, if that. It has an original concept, and while similar to Minesweeper in initial concept, it is not a clone. So I don't know what you are complaining about, because under your definition of fangame, then NESTalgia and Regressia are also fangames, even though they clearly are original.

[Edit: I wrote this before the updates regarding the graphics.

Yes, RPG Sweeper features other games graphics, and in that sense you might be able to squeeze out an argument for it being a fangame in that regard. However, if you are talking about gameplay and story-wise, it is far from it. In fact, Forum_account could change all the graphics, change up the story, and it'd be completely original. Therefore, I find very little merit in claiming it to be a fangame.]

I don't think all fangames should have a bad rap - in fact, most of the original Dragon Warrior and FF clones to hit BYOND were/are fairly good. It's the constant rip after rip that gets incredibly annoying.
Neblim wrote:
Akriloth wrote:
I like how some people on this site went from trying to stop rips; to trying to stop fan-made games. Some developers don't do them for the future benefits but simply as a hobby.

This ^

What I been saying all along.

For one, we have enough fan-games as it is. We've hit the pbags, we've used the jutsus, we've caught the Pikachus. There is more to gaming than the same old BS developers keep producing.

I can't compare RPG Sweeper to any game I've played on BYOND which is why I wouldn't categorize it with some of the Dragon Ball and Naruto nonsense that's on this website. Even though it is similar to Minesweeper, it is original in that I have never played Minesweeper with an RPG theme and it has very good presentation as I mentioned in the OP.

That is why I don't like fan-games. After a while of seeing the same shit over and over, you get tired of it. That's why I'm glad it's all hidden so we can finally focus on projects in which developers actually thought of something unique. Basing your game completely on Bleach or Pokemon is not unique.
Neblim wrote:
Zaole wrote:
[etc]
Neblim wrote:
I DID ADVERTISE NESTALGIA. I dunno, maybe if he didn't ban me for something completely non-game related, I would still be doing just that. If he wants to apologize, undo his actions against me, and admit he was a douche about it, then yes, perhaps I would forgive. I'm not THAT vengeful. But until he can man up, I'll be ignoring him and his campaign.

are you responding to me, or trying to re-emphasize both quotes for ET's sake? if the latter, he no longer seems interested in replying to any of the arguments he's apparently realized he's wrong on
Zaole wrote:
...why should people with a personal dislike of someone advertise that person's game?

Read the OP. I gave reasons explaining why Silk isn't the only person that benefits from this type of promotion.
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