The Programmer's Pledge

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ID:1080612
 
Dec 9 2012, 10:15 am
Before you code, think. Before you write, read. Before you speak, listen. Before you comment, reflect. Before you release, test.
Dec 9 2012, 10:21 am
Before you speak, listen.
This part made me think of the old saying what came first? The chicken or the egg? :3
Dec 9 2012, 10:24 am (Edited on Dec 9 2012, 10:41 am)
Lol no. If you think too much you'll never code. If you read too much, you'll get bogged down with too much information and never do anything. Programmers don't speak. Who are they speaking to? Other programmers?

Programmer 1: I can't speak until I've listened
Programmer 2: I can't speak until I've listened either.
Programmer 1: It appears we are at an impasse.

And you shouldn't really be the one to test your code.
Dec 9 2012, 10:26 am
In response to Lugia319
Lugia319 wrote:
Lol no. If you think too much you'll never code. If you read too much, you'll get bogged down with too much information and never do anything. Programmers don't speak. Who are they speaking to? Other programmers?

Programmer 1: I can't speak until I've listened
Programmer 2: I can't speak until I've listened either.
Programmer 1: It appears we are at an impasse.

And you shouldn't really be the one to test your code.

I believe he was more-so talking about the forum. And I don't agree with what you have said about the programmer testing his own product :P , I believe the programmer should be the only one to encounter the bugs unless it's a large project and open-testing is needed.
Dec 9 2012, 10:30 am
In response to Lugia319
Lugia319 wrote:
Lol no. If you think too much you'll never code. If you read too much, you'll get bogged down with too much information and never do anything. Programmers don't speak. Who are they speaking to? Other programmers?

Programmer 1: I can't speak until I've listened
Programmer 2: I can't speak until I've listened either.
Programmer 1: It appears we are at an impasse.

And you shouldn't really be the one to test your code.

Here's a personal version just for you:

It doesn't hurt to think a little before you code, but don't over-think everything. It helps to read a little before you write, but don't read too much. Try listening before speaking, but someone must speak first. Take a moment to reflect before you make a comment. Before you release to everyone, test it yourself, and then have some others test it too.
Dec 9 2012, 10:30 am
The problem with testing your own programs is that you wrote them. You'll only test for the cases you expect to happen. You need someone that has no idea of what they're doing to go in and wreak havoc upon your game. Only in that way, can you truly find all of the "bugs" in your game.

The whole point of my post was to demonstrate that there is no "absolute" banner of authority you can hold onto. You have to accept all things in moderation and act where necessary.
Dec 9 2012, 10:31 am
In response to Lugia319
Lugia319 wrote:
The problem with testing your own programs is that you wrote them. You'll only test for the cases you expect to happen. You need someone that has no idea of what they're doing to go in and wreak havoc upon your game. Only in that way, can you truly find all of the "bugs" in your game.

The statement "You'll only test for the cases you expect to happen" assumes the programmer is an idiot. Smart programmers will test every possible case, and will try to think of more.
Dec 9 2012, 10:33 am
Then please, explain to me FIREking, why programming jobs generally do not allow you to test your own code?
Dec 9 2012, 10:36 am
In response to Lugia319
Lugia319 wrote:
The problem with testing your own programs is that you wrote them. You'll only test for the cases you expect to happen.
Not always, that's where thinking and being creative comes into play.

You need someone that has no idea of what they're doing to go in and wreak havoc upon your game.
People get enough of those kinds of people even after testing.

Only in that way, can you truly find all of the "bugs" in your game.
Not unless you find and fix them all yourselves, once you've done all that you can the remaining bugs should be reported from honest players.

You have to accept all things in moderation and act where necessary.
You can always make your project follow a set path and/or give players freedom and their own choices.
Dec 9 2012, 10:37 am
In response to Lugia319
Lugia319 wrote:
Then please, explain to me FIREking, why programming jobs generally do not allow you to test your own code?

Because A: if that is the ONLY form of test, it will not be sufficient. Testing your self is necessary, but then it should also be tested by someone else. If you write blind code and never try it your self, that's retarded. From a logic point of view, you're saying the programmer should never test him self, so essentially you are saying to write blind code. B: most people are stupid, even programmers.
Dec 9 2012, 10:37 am
In response to Lugia319
Lugia319 wrote:
The whole point of my post was to demonstrate that there is no "absolute" banner of authority you can hold onto. You have to accept all things in moderation and act where necessary.

You can't take a statement like his and assume he means you to understand it as absolutes. Give some thought to what he said and see what you can take from it. That's the point of his post.

Dec 9 2012, 10:38 am
In response to Kozuma3
Kozuma3 wrote:
Lugia319 wrote:
The problem with testing your own programs is that you wrote them. You'll only test for the cases you expect to happen.
Not always, that's where thinking and being creative comes into play.

You need someone that has no idea of what they're doing to go in and wreak havoc upon your game.
People get enough of those kinds of people even after testing.

Only in that way, can you truly find all of the "bugs" in your game.
Not unless you find and fix them all yourselves, once you've done all that you can the remaining bugs should be reported from honest players.

You have to accept all things in moderation and act where necessary.
You can always make your project follow a set path and/or give players freedom and their own choices.

Who are you? Falacy?
Dec 9 2012, 10:38 am
I never said never test it yourself. I said that you should have others test it for you. Your job is to make sure it does what it wants to. The other testers make sure it doesn't do anything you don't want it to do.

All FIREking posted was a bunch of generic statements, which I respond to by posting MORE generic statements. He may as well be saying, "Haste makes waste" or, "He who hesitates is lost". We are not philosophers here, we are programmers.
Dec 9 2012, 10:42 am
In response to Lugia319
Lugia319 wrote:
We are not philosophers here, we are programmers.

This section is called "Design Philosophy". That's the idea. What Fireking posted was some good advice. Take it or leave it. There's no reason this thread should have been derailed this much.

Dec 9 2012, 10:46 am
Um, lol. I thought it was simple and wise. Oh well, back to programming ^_^
Dec 9 2012, 10:48 am
In response to Kozuma3
Kozuma3 wrote:
Before you speak, listen.
This part made me think of the old saying what came first? The chicken or the egg? :3

I guess scientists found out that Chickens came first: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38238685/ns/ technology_and_science-science/t/ which-came-first-chicken-or-egg/#.UMT48oM8B8E
Dec 9 2012, 10:49 am (Edited by moderator on Dec 9 2012, 11:00 am)
Kozuma3 wrote:
And yet you made a rude remark to me? Shut the [heck] up you hypocrite.

Sorry, I should have clarified. I was more talking about how you formatted your response. You bolded all of your personal words and also broke it up to respond to every little thing. The latter isn't a bad thing, but the former was, as I noticed, a bit of a trademark of Falacy.

Dec 9 2012, 10:49 am
In response to FIREking
FIREking wrote:
Kozuma3 wrote:
Before you speak, listen.
This part made me think of the old saying what came first? The chicken or the egg? :3

I guess scientists found out that Chickens came first: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/38238685/ns/ technology_and_science-science/t/ which-came-first-chicken-or-egg/#.UMT48oM8B8E

Haha :P well at least I got the chance to use it for once xD
Dec 9 2012, 10:51 am (Edited by moderator on Dec 9 2012, 11:00 am)
In response to Fugsnarf
Fugsnarf wrote:
Kozuma3 wrote:
And yet you made a rude remark to me? Shut the [heck] up you hypocrite.

Sorry, I should have clarified. I was more talking about how you formatted your response. You bolded all of your personal words and also broke it up to respond to every little thing. the latter isn't bad, but the former was, as I noticed, a bit of a trademark of Falacy's.

Sorry, I find most people seem to use that against me for some weird reason as to insult me using someones name. And no, I just thought the bold text separated the user and my opinion better than just leaving it plain. ^_^
Dec 9 2012, 10:52 am
Falacy is awesome. It's a compliment.
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