With all the commotion going out at the moment due to BYOND's new game review processes and ripped games and fan games being buried and the original games coming to the front I find myself asking a question.
What about the "original" games that use ripped resources? Now I'm not going to mention any specific games but just from looking at the front page of BYOND there are at least 3 games on the front page that use ripped material.
Now although the game itself may be original in every way, I'd like to know the specific details of using ripped material from less popular sources, for example RPG maker chipsets.
Is it a simple matter of original game trumps ripped resource or will a little proof of original ownership have these titles sunk with the anime rips?
Teka123 wrote:
We are looking at as originally programmed games as possible, Games using icons from released source's such as Rpg maker and some Gba graphics are generally (as far as i have been deciding) fine. I'm confused how can RPG maker and GBA ripped material be considered fine? If anything these would be the worst culprits in the rip cases as all material is owned by another company and seems like the most likely route someone would use to take legal action against the game/byond. | |
The TOS of RPG Makers RTP (that is all the resources) states you may only use these resources within RPG Maker it's self.
So technically, using these resources is just the same as having a ripped game. You do not have permission from the copyright holder to use them and are doing so illegally. This means they should not really be treated any differently than ripped source codes (who says graphics are less important than the source code? You need both to make a game). But I get the feeling, if this did happen, there would be about 3 games left on BYOND. Naturally this would also apply to any resources taken without permission. Whether it be RPG Maker, another game or simply without the artists permission. | |
Ah well i don't know then. I'v only come across a few games using those.
I believed they were free to use open resource's i guess obviously i'm wrong. Hey i'm not as smart as most of the other people around here, i'm just trying to do what i can, once i get Tom's definite written statement of whats alright and not then i wont be able to act any different. Ahh well, as usual i fail at trying to get a grasp on the situation lol:( | |
Don't worry too much about it Teka, with so much going on on byond right now it's hard to really see what's right and what's not.
I'm sure once Tom sets out a clear statement on the do's and dont's of byond game development pertaining to the use of external/copyright material we'll all have a nice foundation to stand on with the matter. | |
It's pretty obvious what the safe bet is though, isn't it? Get your own resources made for you / make your own.
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I have no artistic thumb at all. I also wouldn't be hiring on BYOND, aside from a few select people I know personally. I believe SuperAntx subscribes to the same concept as well, as does Silkwizard (despite the usual angst about NEStalgia graphics). It's a mindset that works, so of course it's not ranted and raved on BYOND like the counter-case is.
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As I understood it (probably wrong), a lot of Silkwizard's final art wasn't of his creation, but provided through an artist he knew.
We all work in principically the same way though, by maintaining mutually beneficial contacts and seeking such people out, either on BYOND or sites more centred on skills BYOND lacks quality resource for. If you're looking to out-class the competition, you do need to expend more effort on all aspects of your work, including who you work with. Money is of course a significant factor in making the process smoother. I expect a fair bit from myself and how I manage things when entering a project, it's the only way I can seek good improvement. | |
Argh Damn, I see someone got some of the intellectual bloggers on.
Looks like this discussion wont end in a hurry. | |
Last I checked if they get permission from the original creator to use it then its not considered a rip.
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They haven't of course taken away either side, so much as put their agenda out in a much clearer manner than previously. Hence you see SuperAntx and Silkwizard doing well out of it. It becomes much clearer on the way you'd probably want to go if you wanted to do well in BYOND generally.
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What do you propose, then?
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It seems like the motivation behind suppressing fan games is not to punish people for using resources and IP without permission (or to avoid cease and desist orders) but to level the playing field for BYOND game developers. If you make a Harry Potter game you have an instant audience, if you make an original game you don't. By letting fan games dominate the site it becomes a bad move for a developer to make an original game.
Keeping that in mind, it doesn't seem like the staff is concerned with policing the hub for ripped sprites. If you call your game "Pokemon Adventure Online" you're clearly using the Pokemon name to attract players. If you make an original game that uses some sprites from a Pokemon game, you're not using the Pokemon sprites to attract players (so it's not a fan game). Fan games tend to have ripped sprites, but the sprites aren't the reason for the fan game designation. Using ripped sprites whether it's legal or not doesn't instantly make a game a fan game. | |
Neblim wrote:
Bottom line for the front page is that it is meant to "assist" you in finding what you're looking for, as A WEBSITE, NOT BYOND'S ENDORSING FOUNDATION, original or fan-game. That's just your assumption of "what the page is for". No matter what people will always have different ideas about what the site should or shouldn't be. The site's appearance (and I don't just mean the CSS) makes a huge difference and Tom has much to gain or lose. The site is important for attracting users and there are surely kinds of users that Tom wants more of and types he wants less of. Imagine how different things would be (for Tom, at least) if the top 5 benefactors had gotten a bad impression from BYOND's website and never became members. It's a bit naive to say that things should be left alone and problems will solve themselves because there's more to the issue than that. | |
Neblim wrote:
No, it's what any website is meant for. Navigation for their services. There's more to BYOND than that. Remember, Tom is trying to make money from this whole operation so it's a little more complex than you're suggesting. He doesn't make money from the software suite, he makes money from attracting generous users who will make donations. The services you mentioned are important aspects of BYOND, but aren't the only aspects of BYOND. | |
Of course Original non fan related games are just being given more attention is all (which i think it fair).
We are looking at as originally programmed games as possible, Games using icons from released source's such as Rpg maker and some Gba graphics are generally (as far as i have been deciding) fine.
There are still some games which may be rip's, but apparently a lot of those are games with Huge player base's, so i cant go rejecting them without proof, i do this sometimes and get a backlash, one with this many players (if wrongly done, I'd be crucified).
I personally do not know which source they are ripped from, and even if they are it would appear the original of that rip was made either a very long time ago or the original no longer exists, in these cases you can often see that the game has had huge alterations and without some people spotting the small things they may not be obvious rips, which makes it kind of hard for me and the other staff members to know whats true, i guess some solid proof would be whats needed to change the status of those types of games.
As i have been deciding so far, those games which use free resources like Rpg maker but have completely differently programmed game interiors, designs and systems are passable to go into the listings, and the same with anime/fan games into fangames listings.
I can't speak for Tom.
This is how i have been judging games so far, Tom is making an extensively thought about set of [Rip Commandments] which we must follow. lol but until then i must take actions the best way i think i can.