One of my game moderators, Albro1, recently did a review about my game Shinzui.
I was flattered by the positive feel of the review itself, but was unsurprised by how vicious the comments were.
Many of the players for Shinzui are very loyal to the game, and greatly enjoy it. This makes them rather blind to a simple fact: it's very shitty.
I'm aware the anime section of BYOND is very looked down upon, sometimes for good reason. This means simply being an anime-based game is going to give the larger BYOND community a very negative first impression. They (BYOND Anime) are viewed as games made by people without an original idea with which to base a game on, which can many times be true.
I remember when I first started trying to make a game, it was going to be fantasy-based. I suppose a simple version of early Final Fantasy games, something like what NEStalgia is now (which is crazy fun). But I had no idea what I was doing back then.
So I decided to base it on Bleach so I had some kind of reference to build from, and because I like swords. At the time I believe there were exactly 2 Bleach games on BYOND; Bleach Evolution (hosted for a while, but wasn't being at the time; now defunct I believe) and Bleach Unlimited (which myself and some veteran Shinzui players also played). I'm not counting Soul Society, given how loosely that is based.
The presentation of Shinzui is very simple. The icons, the interface, the maps, the combat, the AI. It screams unexperienced coder, which I was when I made the core of version 1 (v1). As much as I've learned now, I can see the core code is just not enough to build on, thus the v2 concept of starting over from the ground up. The concepts for this have been being built on for over a year now, with no release in sight, so that's not something that can be used to defend Shinzui.
Personally, I am rather fond of the simple, silly looking icon style. However I know that this does not appeal to everyone. Some value looks more than others, but that's just how it is.
Originality is a tricky word to define. Is this game's code original? Yes, well aside from a few heavily modified libraries I learned from. Does that mean all the concepts, as presented, are original? No. Other games have Quincy/Hollow hybrids, others yet have Quincy/Shinigami hybrids. Although I feel my "Raincyr" (Quincy/Hollow) is well done, other games have presented it poorly.
Some concepts may have inspired other games, or been flat out stolen. The larger BYOND community doesn't care to know this and shouldn't be expected to.
It doesn't really matter that if Shinzui have X shikai and Y bankai, and can get any combination, and can change to any class. It's still based on an anime.
There are some awesome BYOND games out there in the other sections. But the (even larger) gaming community discounts them because they're "shitty BYOND games." And they hate us for dragging the BYOND name through the mud.
An afterword.
The above is a tweaked copy from a post I made on the Shinzui Message Board.
Albro1 made that review, and the response did not surprise me. I would not say that the BYOND community is vicious, but that Anime-based games must accept a certain negative stigma when reviewed.
This does not bother me and I do intend to make excuses with this. Simply put forward my view on that review, my own game, and how it should be viewed by players and non-players.
As far as feedback, I would like to hear:
1. Why Anime-based games are viewed poorly, with more depth than "everything has been a Zeta-rip"
2. What do people want in their real-time combat games?
3. What could make a good Anime-based game?
4. What are some common pitfalls when creating the core code from which to base a MMO game?
(1) My problem with BYOND Anime is that almost every single person (save for Stephen) that I've ever encountered from there is stubborn and misinformed, not to mention almost completely disrespectful to anyone trying to help them. The games are basically all the same, save for the title, icons, and the way the button mashing is conveyed to the audience.
(2) Fast-paced action based off proper combo's rather than random key mashing of your most powerful attacks (3) The same things that make any game good. Something we haven't seen before (I don't mean some super leet h4x attack that does 189067129581256 damage, either). Thought-out game design, immersive story-line/combat system (RPG/Action respectively). You get the point. Don't slap together 15 source codes and call it yours. Take the time to actually create a game. (4) Most people never try. Those that do don't have the experience to complete what they thought would be super easy. It isn't. It takes time, experience, and dedication to produce any sort of large scale project. Other 'pitfalls' include but are not limited to: Asking for people to code for you without taking the time to learn your language, handing out your source code to everyone, turning down help on various channels such as Chatters and Dev Forums, poor planning, unreliable team. | |
On (2):
So something like a good hack&slash, where you follow up attacks with other attacks. These combos change depending on the attack itself, and it's location in the combo. This sounds plausible if it's done at the proper scale. Clearly BYOND isn't built for hack&slash scale MMOs, but a simple system is viable. On (4): "Repetitiveness, lack of actual content, lack of efficiency, terrible developers, etc." is a good checklist of what to avoid. But I suppose what I'm driving at is specific systems that are done poorly, such as hit detection and AI behavior; the most common complains about even mainstream games. Suppose a way to put it is what are the more common patches or glitches that ruin an otherwise enjoyable experience? I've spent considerable time and research on the developer forums on topics like this, seeing very similar answers, and perhaps there is no clear guideline. Maybe part of a game being unique is how they answer these kind of questions. Also, I'm aware Shinzui is not great. Thus all this. | |
(1) is a silly question, which you already answered yourself. There is no deep reason to it; the reason is exactly that most anime games are using the same repetitive formula, inherited from the same reused source code. A secondary reason might be that most people think of anime as childish cartoons.
(2) I'm not sure if you're asking what I think "people" expect in games with realtime combat, or what I want of those games, but either way the answer depends on the game you're making. That said, I recommend that, instead of asking us, you take a look at games (not necessarily BYOND games) that are similar to what you want to make, read reviews and feedback, and see for yourself what people enjoy and what they don't. (3) Depends on the genre, but to mirror what other people have said, at this point I'm open to anything that isn't Zeta! (4) I don't know, I've never made a MMO, but common pitfalls in creating any project include: a) Not planning. Unlike an author penning a story, having a vague idea of what you're going to write isn't enough. A clear vision of what the program will look like is best. b) Not writing robust, reusable classes. This is obvious advice; large projects with classes that aren't robust can easily break with the slightest changes to what you demand of them, and you want reusable classes so that, in future versions, you can extend your project's functionality in unexpected ways, without having to rewrite very large parts of it. c) Finally, this advice is very relevant to our small community: don't overextend yourself, and be modest with your expectations of the project. | |
1. Anime games suck to me because its a sign of laziness. For example, my art teacher grades our artwork, not by how good it is, but how much effort we put forth. You could apply this sort of logic to the anime games on BYOND. Making a game off of an existing animation series takes a load of work off of the developers. It shows that you're uncreative and you didn't even have enough passion for game development to take a few days and just think to create a genuine idea. Furthermore, you don't even care about the fact that well over half of the games in the "Live Games" list are anime. I'm the type of person that wants to stand out. If I see a hundred people going one way, I go the opposite way. That is why you've never seen me create an anime game. Because there are already enough anime games. Why the hell do we need more and more? Why doesn't it ever occur to people on BYOND that there is more to game development than "senzu beans" and "jutsus"?
2. Action, tons of skills, customization, various game modes ( I like my real-time games round based ), environment interaction. 3. I honestly don't know. I'm so sick of anime on BYOND I don't think anything based off of Dragon Ball, Naruto, Pokemon, or Bleach could ever impress me. 4. Lack of balance | |
Toadfish, much thanks for your approach to #4. I'm learning that (b) takes a lot of time and, of course, effort trying different styles and approaches to the same feature. If there's already a fanbase, they might get impatient, but it's really important to spend this time regardless!
Think it might be benefitial to ask an "advisor" about ideas every so often, to get the outside opinion on if something actually matters. Forces a developer to keep a clear plan along the way! Overall I feel this "event" has been constructive for me. Got an idea or two, which makes it worth it either way. :) For that, the commenters have my thanks. | |
I'm sorry but I'd have to rate this game as like a 8.3. But it's my favorite anime game out there. Thanks for makeing it. I still think it can always be better and room for inprovement. But the way you made it is VERY unqiue and i'm very thankful to be a part of the gameing experiance. VIVA LA SHINZUI. (Long live Shinzui.)
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Figure I'll add something of my own with the two things I feel I'm able to give feedback on...
1, Personally I think it's because too many people view them as easy pickings(Maybe to get on the right track fast, or become known.), and then try to make one and end up failing. Thus we end up with all of this clutter. Not only that, but there's so much drama... 3, Yeah, time and effort. I suppose it wouldn't be too bad if it were more of a stepping stone for those still learning, but not only do people constantly steal and argue, they get -defiant- about it. Think awareness is an important factor when trying to achieve something like this (or perhaps anything at all?) But I'm probably just typing up things people already know. | |
You Should put subscription in shinzui for ppl tht want to buy it ther should be like special sub stuff tht ppl will like
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It is my policy that there should never be "subscriber exclusive" content for Anime games. I don't even like it for mainstream games, in fact.
I've never made any money from this, and have no desire to. Things get weird as soon as you include money. And it wouldn't feel right to accept it, as this is based on Bleach, which I do not own. | |
Any game that is a clone, or almost an exact clone of another. BYOND Anime games tend to rinse'n'reuse the same exact ideals, graphics, game-play and so forth. This is absolutely, terrible. Better games would be like DBO II. The game-play is new to BYOND and the graphics aren't a huge cluster-f*** of multiple artists not cooperating properly.
(2)
Actual real-time combat. Nothing about holding down a button forever. Split combat up. We do have limbs ya know, so utilize them. Attack shouldn't be generic. We have Arms, Hands, Heads, Chests, Legs, Feet. I'm pretty sure Goku or Ichigo or Naruto didn't just bump into someone to attack them, over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over and over... and over and over again.
We want something exciting that won't just draw us in for a minute or two, but draw us in for weeks, months, maybe even years. Otherwise your game will only be as good as your fan-base; temporary and lacking intellect.
(3)
RTS, Side-Scroller, Real-Time MMORPG. Something that hasn't been done already. Not one single Anime game has been successful in becoming the best of BYOND because more than likely, it's just a Game-Play-Clone of 9,000 other games before it. The main issue with BYOND Anime is it's content is just kids trying to re-invent the wheel, which is terrible. The wheel has already been made (ex; Dragonball Zeta, Naruto GOA, Bleach: Los Noches, etc.) so stop re-inventing it and giving it a different name, and start inventing different wheels.
(4)
Repetitiveness, lack of actual content, lack of efficiency, terrible developers, etc.
Also, to be blunt about your game, it's not that great. It might have been great like 5 or so years ago, but for today's time, it's pretty bland and generic. I'm not talking about the graphics either, which could use a lot of Tender-Loving-Care.