New approach!

ID:104154
 
Nov 4 2010, 5:56 am (Edited on Nov 13 2010, 3:53 pm)
Lately, I have been swamped with all the Art assignments I have been given in the past weeks that, I haven't had time to icon. I have not forgotten about BYOND, nor have I stop being a member, I just need time to work and more then that,the knowledge of Game Production.

I have come to realize that no matter how much we on BYOND can program,icon/animate, or map, we are lacking a few elements of design that can rarely be found on BYOND. A real game worth anything need more then just a Programmer and artist. It needs a Producer, Associate Producer, Art director, lead artist, concept artist and world builder or level designer and the list goes on and on. For Byond, all these are not needed but a Good/decent Producer is. If a game is not fully drawn out at the beginning on production you will most likely run into problems along the way.

" After the game plan is implemented, art, design, engineering, and testing are even more dependent on each other for completing tasks. If the artist are waiting on design for the details of a specific level design, they may be in a holding pattern if this documentation is not ready."


Heather Chandler. The Game Production Handbook. Canada: Charles River Media, Inc 2005 print.



That's from a book I picked up in the library "The Game Production Handbook" It teaches how to structure a game and answers common production problems. It seem most producers are not even train for the job they are hired to manage.
I've Decided to start production on my own game using this book as a guild. I also picked up web design and animation history to study in my spear time.

I studying a wide array of subjects and wont icon until the pre-production of my game. My production wont begin until I have a clear understanding on how this game production process works. I will post some facts on Game production, art, or anything I learn in the coming weeks of progress. I hope we all will benefit from this information and use it to help make BYOND better.
Nov 4 2010, 6:05 am (Edited on Nov 4 2010, 6:12 am)
Ugghh. I dont know where to start on whats wrong with your post.
Nov 4 2010, 7:04 am
A real game worth anything need more then just a Programmer and artist. It needs a Producer, Associate Producer, Art director, lead artist, concept artist and world builder or level designer and the list goes on and on

You don't need to have all those people, you just need people to perform the functions of those people (for hobby game projects some aren't as necessary).

Almost every game has a level designer whether someone is assigned that title or not. If you didn't have a level designer the game wouldn't have any maps! Saying "so-and-so, you're the level designer" doesn't mean that you're giving level design the importance it deserves. Just assigning a job title isn't sufficient, you have to make sure the necessary work is completed and done properly.

Listing job titles doesn't say anything about game design. You should instead talk about the responsibilities of each role.
Nov 4 2010, 9:10 am

Almost every game has a level designer whether someone is assigned that title or not. If you didn't have a level designer the game wouldn't have any maps! Saying "so-and-so, you're the level designer" doesn't mean that you're giving level design the importance it deserves. Just assigning a job title isn't sufficient, you have to make sure the necessary work is completed and done properly.

Listing job titles doesn't say anything about game design. You should instead talk about the responsibilities of each role.

Im just stating the facts.

and to everything else you said. "DUH!"


Nov 4 2010, 10:56 am
You're going to use the book as a guild?
Nov 4 2010, 3:24 pm
EmpirezTeam wrote:
You're going to use the book as a guild?

Yes, and keep a Journal.
I need to shape this for BYOND, So I'll post my Ideas.

Its not that big about 400 pages
Nov 4 2010, 3:47 pm
see you in what, 4 years? Maybe by then you'll have the first town done for this game of yours.
Nov 4 2010, 4:53 pm
Hey man!
I think that in a few aspects you are correct; Having a game and its mechanics mapped out before beginning is always going to make it run smoother. It's just that you make it out to be so much more than it is!
Your game design book, albeit for the most part general, probably didn't have BYOND in mind when it was writing out a game making process. BYOND does a lot of those jobs for you, and the workload you have to pick up yourself shouldn't be too overwhelming for the scale of games you can create here.
Just lighten up and don't make it a bigger scarier process than it is, or else you might find yourself somewhere in the scheme of things buckling.

Anywho! Just wondering what Art institute you're attending, as I myself am planning to attend one next year as well! :D
Nov 4 2010, 5:22 pm
Pmitch wrote:
see you in what, 4 years? Maybe by then you'll have the first town done for this game of yours.

LOL see that why I got this book.

You first find a game concept, then find the deadline for you game.

(These are the First two elements of production.)

Then balance Pre-production at 10-25% of the total development time for the game, and Production, testing and post-production with the remaining percentage.

If a game is 3 years in the making.
Pre-production is at 25% = 9 Months
then Production is 9 Months.

If DBOII Is should be this (Art side only)

Pre-Production
Art director: you might have one
draws out the worlds art, sound,
logos ect with Lead artist.
Lead Artist: = You pmitch
Works closely with Director.
Manages quality of the art and
assets day to day task. Allows the
director to focus on creative
thinking and not mangaging
personnel. If there is if no
director, the lead assumes both
positions.
Concept artists: Your long waiting
fans. Who should have some Idea of
the whole game even before your
artist

Production
World builder/mapper: You have someone
Builds the map with lead is the
game designer if your
Pre-production phase does not have
one.
Asset Artist aka overlay artist:?
Does the contents/items of the
game.
Animator: ??Pmitch?? I think
makes animations.
Technical Artist: ??
Puts the items on byond and fits
them.


If im the world builder and you had no set world design. I reserve the right to do what to you should have done in pre-production; Draw it out on paper.
Its seemed you wanted pritty anything.
The 2% of the work of my final vision for West City was enough for you to make several pritty looking maps. So you player can do the same thing in every other game but look good doing it. You wanted a design but not a specific design. It would be 3 months I told you, you fliped in one.

when you hired me. I had 3 months before you first deadline. So if i was a professional, being by myself, I could have gave you GOA quality work at best...
Nov 4 2010, 5:44 pm
Go-jin769 wrote:
Pmitch wrote:
see you in what, 4 years? Maybe by then you'll have the first town done for this game of yours.

LOL see that why I got this book.

You first find a game concept, then find the deadline for you game.

(These are the First two elements of production.)

Then balance Pre-production at 10-25% of the total development time for the game, and Production, testing and post-production with the remaining percentage.

If a game is 3 years in the making.
Pre-production is at 25% = 9 Months
then Production is 9 Months.

If DBOII Is should be this (Art side only)

Pre-Production
Art director: you might have one
draws out the worlds art, sound,
logos ect with Lead artist.
Lead Artist: = You pmitch
Works closely with Director.
Manages quality of the art and
assets day to day task. Allows the
director to focus on creative
thinking and not mangaging
personnel. If there is if no
director, the lead assumes both
positions.
Concept artists: Your long waiting
fans. Who should have some Idea of
the whole game even before your
artist

Production
World builder/mapper: You have someone
Builds the map with lead is the
game designer if your
Pre-production phase does not have
one.
Asset Artist aka overlay artist:?
Does the contents/items of the
game.
Animator: ??Pmitch?? I think
makes animations.
Technical Artist: ??
Puts the items on byond and fits
them.


If im the world builder and you had no set world design. I reserve the right to do what to you should have done in pre-production; Draw it out on paper.
Its seemed you wanted pritty anything.
The 2% of the work of my final vision for West City was enough for you to make several pritty looking maps. So you player can do the same thing in every other game but look good doing it. You wanted a design but not a specific design. It would be 3 months I told you, you fliped in one.

when you hired me. I had 3 months before you first deadline. So if i was a professional, being by myself, I could have gave you GOA quality work at best...

Okay what?

You said like 6 months before youd be finished mapping out one city that is far from the focus of my game. Not 3.


And im hoping you realize how silly you sound, after looking at what youve typed in that reply.

No way am i going to have some "art director" lording over me telling me what to draw. Nor would i need concept art for a freaking hobby fan game.

And i can tell you right now from experience (dealing with you included) you're not going to find a professional team like what you're looking for in that book on byond. Maybe one at a time or something, but definitely not all at once, lol. Thats asking entirely too much for a hobby, unless you're paying them. And even then, still not likely. You can ask other developers now. Its hard enough to find one artist, let alone someone to specialize in just one of the things you're talking about.

And please, if you consider GOA's art, or maps as professional, then you either need to go log in and see wtf you just said, and quickly take it back, or you have incredibly bad taste.
Nov 4 2010, 5:52 pm (Edited on Nov 4 2010, 5:58 pm)
I dont plan to use all, just some for byond.

And its hard to find them cus noone know want they want.

"Im look for artist....i want the same thing the other guy said....become admin."

I just need a good programmer, and you right every one else can be replaced....
Nov 4 2010, 6:00 pm
Yurokei wrote:
Hey man!
I think that in a few aspects you are correct; Having a game and its mechanics mapped out before beginning is always going to make it run smoother. It's just that you make it out to be so much more than it is!
Your game design book, albeit for the most part general, probably didn't have BYOND in mind when it was writing out a game making process. BYOND does a lot of those jobs for you, and the workload you have to pick up yourself shouldn't be too overwhelming for the scale of games you can create here.
Just lighten up and don't make it a bigger scarier process than it is, or else you might find yourself somewhere in the scheme of things buckling.

Anywho! Just wondering what Art institute you're attending, as I myself am planning to attend one next year as well! :D

Art Institute of Indianapolis
and i know Ill try to make it byond friendly.