Mikau wrote:

Tsfreaks wrote:

That's due to a lot of hard work vs standing around doing nothing as you suggest.

That isn't what I suggested at all, in fact it's the exact opposite of what I said. My exact words were "See, now if everyone thought like you did, nothing would ever get done" when addressing someone else suggesting to look the other way.

Tsfreaks wrote:

There is absolutely nothing wrong with providing alternatives and variations on examples (see BYOND Resources as it is today).

What you're doing isn't just providing an alternative variation of what we have, what you're doing is trying to monopolize the system to make money off of it. Sure, I'll agree with you that the resources we have aren't in the best shape, however the solution isn't to build another system beside that one. The solution to the problem is to work with what we have and make it better. Do you honestly thing people looking for resources are going to go "Well, since I'm on BYOND, I'll just use PopLava." No, what they're going to do is they are going to look and use what resources we have there because that is what BYOND is providing. Unless of course you plan on trying to get Tom to add "PopLava Resources" to the drop down menu, which I can't see happening.

You want to really know the biggest problem with those money symbols in your eyes? It's your target audience. The bulk of BYOND's community consists of teenagers that can't even convince their parents for the most part to purchase them a membership. Do you think that they're going to convince them to purchase some silver on your website?

There's only 2 choices for dealing with the resource problem as of now. The first involves someone going through the hub entries on an administrator level and clearing out all of the broken and badly designed resources that we have. Which will inevitably lead to the same problem in the long run, and the second being that we come up with a better to manage the resources, and PopLava is not the better way. PopLava is an idea to take what developers work on here and to turn it into a transaction of some kind.

You want my solution? The solution that would work? It's called BWICKI 2.0

We had BWICKI before and nobody used it, why? Simple. Because it was a nuisance to navigate. There is a ton of open source wiki software out there right now that could easily allow developers to add and edit resources. Real developers that know what they're doing(Tiberath/Garthor/Popisfizzy to name a few).

I've been around BYOND for a very long time. I've seen it go through many stages. I've seen the highs and lows of the community and the ups and downs the software has had. When I look back at BYOND, I see a great tool for learning. I see a great tool for giving kids a means to put their imagination to work and to build something on their own. I've seen an 11 year old first hand hit compile and watch their little man run around the screen, the joy in their eyes when they realized that they accomplished something.

What I don't see is someone coming along and limiting the resources for kids by trying to make a quick buck.

There isn't anything wrong with wanting to make money, if you are going to bitch about making money, then you need to turn around and point the finger at BYOND, because I've been against the idea of a membership since it started. The only reason why I am a member is because of Teka.

Besides that, you don't need PopLava to make money on BYOND, it's easy enough to advertise and sell your own resources without the hassle of PopLava.

Also, Tiberath a developer? lawl.
Also, also, that 11 year old smells.

If PopLava can encourage developers to release some quality resources, then more power to them. Who cares if some *** kids can't access it?

tsfreaks wrote:

Contributors earn 90% for each unlocked asset while 10% goes to PopLava. This seems extremely reasonable given the amount of work that went into creating the Resource Center. I constantly add features, fix bugs, provide status updates, support all users and contributors, review submissions for quality, provide feedback, and so on. Not to mention my out of pocket expenses for internet, file hosting, electricity, and hardware.

You could have just created a guild. Sure, you'd need to review submissions but you wouldn't need to worry about features, bugs, or expenses for internet, file hosting, electricity, or hardware.

The only benefit that PopLava seems to offer is the central listing of quality resources (BYOND's hub is a mess!) but a guild could achieve the same thing. BYOND lacks quality resources but PopLava doesn't appear to do anything to address this.

I think this sounds like a good idea if we can start getting partially good resources in there too, not just coding resources but artwork resources.

While at it, we wouldn't just stop there but we'd make sure to have a large collection of free stuff.

Forum_account wrote:

tsfreaks wrote:

Contributors earn 90% for each unlocked asset while 10% goes to PopLava. This seems extremely reasonable given the amount of work that went into creating the Resource Center. I constantly add features, fix bugs, provide status updates, support all users and contributors, review submissions for quality, provide feedback, and so on. Not to mention my out of pocket expenses for internet, file hosting, electricity, and hardware.

You could have just created a guild.

The PopLava concept actually started out as a guild but the system was far to limiting at least for my vision.

The only benefit that PopLava seems to offer is the central listing of quality resources (BYOND's hub is a mess!) but a guild could achieve the same thing. BYOND lacks quality resources but PopLava doesn't appear to do anything to address this.

The Resource Center actually provides a voting system for assets which will eventually put lame assets towards the back or kick them out of the catalog. Repeat offenders of poor quality assets will also be banned from new submissions. I'll also point out that PopLava staff reviews all assets before they are allowed in the catalog. That means there won't be any bogus/bad entries, missing files, and etc. With all that in our defense... I know it still doesn't address code quality but that's a tuffy. I'd love to hear peoples thoughts on how to address that over on the PopLava forums if your interested. At this point, its up to users to flag bad code via the voting option.

Forum_account wrote:

Tsfreaks wrote:

The PopLava concept actually started out as a guild but the system was far to limiting at least for my vision.

So far it seems like all you're offering is a way for developers to have their resources listed in a somewhat exclusive place. This could have been done with a guild.

The project offers quite a bit more. If you try submitting an asset, you might get a better idea.

This relies a lot on having quality resources to showcase. With that in mind you'd have been better off to get something to show people as quickly as possible.

I did. Why do you think I built this in a the last couple of weeks and have it open for beta testing!?!

Even if a guild and forum wouldn't accommodate your grand vision it would've worked in the short-term. '

See above.

This would have gotten some people on board but instead you have a large crowd of skeptics who will lose interest shortly.

See above. There is always going to be haters no matter what.

ts

Haha, wow, this is what I come back to after rocking out all night. Not only did you completely fail at grasping what I was talking about twice Tsfreaks, but you also used it as an opportunity to advertise the thing I was saying was a waste of time. Not only did you not address any of the points I made, you summed it up to something that I didn't mean at all.

I'll work backwards. What use it is to someone if they have to use a program to know what it's about? I don't have to use photoshop to know what it's about. I don't have to use windows media player to know that it plays music and files.

Tsfreaks wrote:

The PopLava concept actually started out as a guild but the system was far to limiting at least for my vision.

Yeah, the limiting part was figuring out how you could make the transactions by just listening resources that BYOND already has. Simply terrible.

Now onto what you said about "PopLava making money" and me not thinking it's fair. I never once said anything about fair, but now that you bring it up, Yes, you're absolutely correct. PopLava isn't fair to the young developers that can't afford to put money into your pocket in order to learn how to program.

I never once said you owed anything to BYOND either. You're simply making shit up because (presumably) you know that I'm correct. I came up with a better system that doesn't put you at the top of the resource pedestal. I also came up with this in about 30 seconds, and it didn't involve me making any money off of BYOND.

By the way, what exactly is an official "What is PopLava?" post? Either you're trying to put yourself back on the pedestal by going "LOOK AT ME!" or... no, that's the only option, either way that's what you're doing.

PopLava wrote:

The "kids" still have access to all the wonderful resources on the site and they can even earn a little in the Resource Center (which is fun) and buy other assets so I'm not leaving anyone behind. I'm just giving people more options.

Oh that's good, thank you for clarifying. I'm 11 and I want to learn about screen objects, I'll just have to write a tutorial on grids to earn money on your website so I can purchase it... Oh wait... I don't know how to program, I'm trying to learn.

Oh nevermind, I'm 11. I'd never find your website, I'd go straight for the developer section of the website anyways.

Have you even taken a look at the "website" yet? Under a different name perhaps?

Riva wrote:

Forum_account wrote:

So far it seems like all you're offering is a way for developers to have their resources listed in a somewhat exclusive place. This could have been done with a guild.

I have to agree here. I doubt people are really in love with the idea of paying for resources they could probably get for free, or create themselves with help from the community. Creating a guild sounds like a much better idea.

You could at least have the courtesy of checking out the Resource Center before voicing an opinion... and maybe you have under another account name. Do tell.

Riva wrote:

PopLava wrote:

You could at least have the courtesy of checking out the Resource Center before voicing an opinion... and maybe you have under another account name. Do tell.

Relax, I'm not conspiring against you or anything, just commenting on the subject.

I looked around and it was everything I expected. So my comment still stands.

You spent all of 15 seconds and most people require about 10-15 minutes to take everything in. You ran out of there with every intention of keeping your visit as short as possible.

Its one of the nicest BYOND applications to date and you just dismiss it as "everything you expected".

Yah, ok. I realize I'm wasting my time here. People slandering a concept without rhyme or reason. I don't stand a chance against irrational behavior so I'm done bothering.