DarkCampainger wrote:
@Hiro the Dragon King How would it be considered cheating? I did nothing insidious. In fact, if I didn't have a such a boner for reading everything I come across, I would have skipped the comments, finished the major updates to my game and gotten pissed off when it got rejected for undefined rules. | |
Hiro the Dragon King wrote:
DarkCampainger wrote: What if the competition had a short timeline, ie a week or a day? Regardless, in this case, I don't think it's cheating, which is why I said "for some competitions". I guess my point is, you took a risk by preemptively working on your entry before the competition was officially announced. You should have been prepared for the possibility that it would be rejected. | |
Hiro the Dragon King wrote:
I rushed production of this game so that I would have it ready for the contest you mentioned on the Casual blog a little while ago. I created stylized systems and an over-the-top interface completely different from anything else created on BYOND to give a fighting chance against any great developers that would enter the contest. The public release was to get info on what should be added, improved, or redacted to make it a complete game and to make sure that it ran correctly on other vastly different computers than the two laptops that I have access to. So, to say that nothing was gained from the contest would be wholly incorrect. The contest prompted more from me than I've ever thought I could do before the contest was officially announced. Wouldn't it make sense to actually start working on your project once the contest starts, or at least hold off on releasing it? As with most contest, there are usually guidelines and/or criteria you must follow. I find it hard to give you any sympathy when you felt the need to finish or start the project before the start date was announced, just to perhaps get a head-start over your competitors. | |
RJTaylor wrote:
I find it hard to give you any sympathy when you felt the need to finish or start the project before the start date was announced, just to perhaps get a head-start over your competitors. Tiberath decided to allow games that were started before the contest was announced, just not games finished before it was announced. Apparently getting a head start is okay only if you're lazy and don't finish things. Hiro said earlier: I was talking about entering this game into the contest when you mentioned the contest a while back, but you disappeared, so I didn't think the contest was going to happen. So it sounds like Tiberath was going to have the contest earlier, but didn't, which is why Hiro released the game. | |
Forum_account wrote:
Tiberath decided to allow games that were started before the contest was announced, just not games finished before it was announced. Apparently getting a head start is okay only if you're lazy and don't finish things. A) One is enforceable, one is not B) One leads to new games being released C) One is intentional, one is not (most likely. Although it's possible they could just be more sneaky than Hiro, that falls under point A) D) One opens a loop-hole that allows the contest to be spammed with old games (ie if in bizzaro-world Iccusion needed some money and decided to enter all of their games) Hiro said earlier: That doesn't explain why he decided to start the game before the contest was announced. Tib casually mentioned that he planned to hold a contest (and was asking for prize ideas). As far as I can tell, he made no mention of rules, start date, deadlines, theme, ect. Not allowing already released entries is a common rule for contests. | |
Alright, when Tiberath made the post, the idea of a jigsaw game was still in the stages of a concept demo such that out would find on the developer forums, as it was a week or so earlier. It didn't function well, and I ended up rewriting both of the libraries that the demo was intended to demonstrate. I read his post and thought that if I could actually get this thing running, I would have the basis for a game. After you know, a month, I had the libraries efficient enough to actually run the idea of a jigsaw puzzle. Being a month since Tib made his post, and a week or since Tib had allegedly left BYOND, I decided to start putting a game around the system and get some advice from Chatters. I did my best to make everything look and work beautifully in case Tib resurfaced because as we all know, no one can actually leave BYOND.
It's not like I did anything that a developer shouldn't already do when creating a game. Besides, it's not like I had any advantage over anyone else. Like you said, I didn't know anything of the specific rules of the contest, not that there are any. The point of the contest was to incite some excitement in creating Casual games. I don't see how entering my game would in any way "defeat the point" of the contest. As of now, unless more ridiculous comments are made, I'm making no more ridiculous comments. I don't care, I'm making something else. EDIT: Not in most of the contests I've been around to seen, but then again, the only ones I've seen on BYOND are the 8K Challenge and the Get Something Done that IP hosted. | |
Hiro the Dragon King wrote:
Besides, it's not like I had any advantage over anyone else. I'm pretty sure having the game completed a month in advance and not working under a deadline would count as an advantage. | |
How so? I put together that game, polish and all, in two-three months, as you yourself saw in the forums. IP has one month to finish a game that has a year's work put into it. Where is my advantage now?
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Hiro the Dragon King wrote:
How so? I put together that game, polish and all, in two-three months, as you yourself saw in the forums. IP has one month to finish a game that has a year's work put into it. Where is my advantage now? A month of hub advertising and community feedback. But the point is more-so your advantage against people who are starting from scratch (which will be the majority) | |
Moot points. What does HUB advertising have anything to do with the contest? It's not a popularity contest. If I entered the game now, what has the community feedback given me? A few minor bug fixes? Besides, the only feedback I've gotten is through two users on Chatters, where I regularly roam, and where I got advice before I released the game.
To further pound your point; what if I were to come up with an idea now, come up with the basic game over night, and release it tomorrow? I could use the month of publicity and feedback to work on the game before the deadline. Would that give me an unfair advantage? | |
Hiro the Dragon King wrote:
To further pound your point; what if I were to come up with an idea now, come up with the basic game over night, and release it tomorrow? I could use the month of publicity and feedback to work on the game before the deadline. Would that give me an unfair advantage? No, because you would doing it within the given time frame. All other entrants would have the same opportunity to make a game in a night and spend the rest of the month getting feedback and tweaking it. Also: DarkCampainger wrote: But the point is more-so your advantage against people who are starting from scratch (which will be the majority) An extra two months+ to design and develop a game is a considerable advantage. | |
Just skip the point. That's fine. I'm done with this conversation. It doesn't even matter. I'm not entering the game and I'm arguing the merits o... Good night.
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DarkCampainger wrote:
An extra two months+ to design and develop a game is a considerable advantage. Tiberath allowing projects that have been in development for years (as long as they're not finished). Having a "head start" is not the issue. | |
Forum_account wrote:
DarkCampainger wrote: Well, here are the two ways I (a person whose opinion matters not, but would do anything to procrastinate from other tasks) see it. 1) Tib is bribing BYOND developers with $150 to try and get them to get off their bums and release something. If Hiro wins one of the prizes with a game that was released regardless of the contest, Tib's "donation" goes to waste. and/or 2) It's logistically impossible to prevent developers from using unreleased and unpublicized projects, short of designing the rules to minimize the advantage they might offer (such as with wacky themes) But it's a moot point, since Hiro's making something new anyways. I was going to finish and enter Breach for the contest, but now I'll start something from scratch just to eat my own words. | |
Would a puzzle game work for this contest?
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Moonlight Memento wrote:
Would a puzzle game work for this contest? Depends entirely on how you make it. DarkCampainger wrote: I was going to finish and enter Breach for the contest, but now I'll start something from scratch just to eat my own words. Submit both? @Forum_Account: Or you know, you can accept that it's my competition and I'll put in place whatever contradicting, pointless or seemingly unfair rules I see fit. And if you don't like it, you can easily not take part and thus not need to worry about it. How's that? | |
Well you don't have to be a complete dick about it, you know.
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Hiro the Dragon King wrote:
Well you don't have to be a complete dick about it, you know. Grow up. | |
SuperAntx wrote:
Hiro the Dragon King wrote: Tiberath or Hiro? If Tiberath wants to make silly and unfair rules for the sake of making silly and unfair rules, there are places to do that. If he wants to run a decent contest he should put a little more thought into how it will work. A contest is more than saying "I have some prize money, go make games." A well-structured contest stands a better chance of generating good games than a badly structured one. It's a garbage in, garbage out type of thing. | |
My opinion on this as a potential contest submitter...
Add one additional guideline:
"If the entry was not available on the HUB when the contest was announced, it shall be allowed."
I don't know the history of Hiro's entry but that guideline seems reasonable to me.
ts