Dan or Tom,
Can you plesae answer me how you intend to resolved abusive behavior here at BYOND? Surely you can't expect things to remain as they are, as multiple keys will just allow the problem to go on. For now I'm banning those people from my games who can't behave, but I need to know there is a more solid system in place in dealing with these type of people. As the problem is only going to get work the more people who start coming to BYOND.
LJR
ID:137093
 Feb 18 2002, 10:42 am
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No its not like c++. This is an online community that hope to prosper, unlike a programming language. Also I hope they intend to be successful and any good business has something of this nature in place to take care of these matters should they arise.
LJR well here's the problem. as an example byond is like c++. would you ask the makers of C++ how they plan to stop abuse in games made in c++? most likely not, I'd be surprised if dantom does anything to stop this (other then adding channel support). because it is really the game creators problem to take care of. | |
I'm not exactly sure what problem you're having, but I think the best hope is just to provide a little more control over who's allowed into your game... But, if you're intending to have the game open to anyone, then that anyone includes trouble makers. If it's not open to everyone, then you can easily exclude troublemakers.
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I must agree with Xzar. I doubt BYOND will do anything to curb abusive behaviour, aside from administrating the forums. The rest is up to you! Take Red Cap for example: some people have played Red Cap before and have come to like it. So, when they log in, they are not abusive. There will also be new players that log in and like the game; they will not be abusive either. Then, there are the people who log in, take one look at the game, say "this game sux", and log out. People aren't really bothered by that minority... the game is good enough that the majority of users like it! Kemet* is not near to being finished yet, so you can expect more people to log in and dislike the game. They will be abusive. You must simply keep working on your game and ignore them. Once your game is good enough, you will not have the problem any more!
-Lord of Water * I assume Kemet is where you are receiving the abuse | |
Can you plesae answer me how you intend to resolved abusive behavior here at BYOND? There has been plenty of discussion about this in the past, but the general consensus so far has been that it isn't Dantom who should have to address it -- it's the game authors. In addition to banning, here are some other options to consider: 1) When people log in for the first time, have them fill out a short questionnaire; you can review applicants at your leisure and grant them access if they don't sound like complete turds. 2) Create a "banned" channel and grant subscriptions to everyone who acts up. Then multiple games can check for subscriptions to this channel. 3) Make access to a game contingent on a non-refundable admission fee. 4) Instead of banning troublesome players outright, penalize them: maybe no one can hear the output of their "say" commands, or they can only buy items for double the normal price and sell them for half the normal price, or they move at half-speed. | |
Gughunter wrote:
Can you plesae answer me how you intend to resolved abusive behavior here at BYOND? 4) Instead of banning troublesome players outright, penalize them: ... they move at half-speed. I love it! The dread "simulatelag()" administrator command! Griefers beware. | |
Been there, done that. Of course it's handy, but they just become more determined to find some way around the punishment. If you make the poor sucker think thier connection or the game is lagged, they won't want to stay anymore. You wouldn't want to announce the effects to them and it would have to effect all player actions to be really effective.
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Devil Man wrote:
Not allowing them to speak is actually one of the best things. As well as an imprison verb. I think it would be more amusing to implement an admin verb that causes everything they say to be replaced with: "I am an abusive player; if any admins are listening, please ban me from your game". Or perhaps something even more embarrassing to the offending player ;-) | |
Actually, that would make spamming all the easier, even without macros! I remember a few EW spammers who would die and then macro their say verb. In EW, everything you say is replaced with "OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO" when you are dead. *tisk*
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Pmikell wrote:
Devil Man wrote: Call me sadistic, but I've got a sudden urge to make one of these that replaces chat output with "how u play?" and "plz i dont understand this". | |
Lord of Water wrote:
Actually, that would make spamming all the easier, even without macros! I remember a few EW spammers who would die and then macro their say verb. In EW, everything you say is replaced with "OoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoOoO" when you are dead. *tisk* That could be countered by really muting most of the spammer's speech, and allowing only a limited number of "doctored" utterances in a given time interval. You could also silently (to the spammer) downgrade each of the spammer's "shouts" or "chats" to a "say". | |
Here are the solutions I have to fixing the abuse in my game, Adventure Land:
(I don't think abuse should be solved by banning players. There is no need. The game can usually be designed to let the players have their own environment to live in.) ABUSIVE ACTIONS: 1.) BAD LANGUAGE: Hey, I don't like it. I let anyone who doesn't like bad language enter the KEY of the person they don't want to be able to hear into a list. A verb is a good way. Of course, everyone should be able to know eachother's keys for this. 2.) BLOCKING DOORS: In my RPG, blocking doors could be a problem. So, just make a lot of doors. Blocking caves and towns on the larger-scale overworld map? Perhaps having monsters appear after so much time without moving could do the trick. (That would cause the "Blocker" to dissapear. Moving is what usually initiates a battle, after so many steps.) 3.) PLAYER KILLING: I haven't tried my ideas for this, since I have no PKing yet. But, I think multiple Newbie towns would help. Perhaps I'll use the no PKing low-level people trick. Otherwise, I think PKing is good to have. | |
The thing you'll realize as you try to control who does and doesn't have access to your game is that you're spending too much time administrating and not enough time working on/running your game! The solution to this problem is not to foist it off onto Dantom... do you want them to spend all of their time on spiraling administrative duties, or working on BYOND?
More to the point, do you realize that if there's a centralized banning authority, BYOND could become a very dangerous place if you become unpopular? Remember, the system is never wrong, until it goes after you. I used to ban people who wouldn't behave... then I realized it was more fun to make the game unplayable for them. The funny thing is... they still wanted to play the game, and being allowed in but not allowed to prosper and advance made them want to actually play the game enough that a lot of them settled down. | |
Two problems with your assumptions.
One, BYOND is not merely one community, it's several interlacing subcommunities. Language that's abusive in one creator's world might be banter in another, likewise with behavior. Depending on the world and level of immersion, a loud-mouthed player might merely be annoying, or may actually be ruining the game for everyone. Kemet (or any other large, online RPG) is a community unto itself. Two, Dan and Tom have placed all of the power here into the hands of the creators. You have the ability to control the access to your game... therefore, you have the responsibility to do so. Dantom allows you to allow anyone you want to allow to come into your game and do anything you allow them to do. If you allow abusive players and abusive actions, then no one else is going to come along to stop it. This is freedom. I'm sure Dan and Tom don't want to take an active hand in policing gaming conduct, and no one who stops and thinks about it should want them to, either. | |
well here's the problem. as an example byond is like c++. would you ask the makers of C++ how they plan to stop abuse in games made in c++? most likely not, I'd be surprised if dantom does anything to stop this (other then adding channel support). because it is really the game creators problem to take care of.