In response to English
If you just try to silence the opposition then you admit that there is a threat that what they are saying is true.

Senseless rhetoric... are you saying that to be objectionable, an idea has to be true? That people everywhere can only be swayed by truth? If that's the case, we have no need to fear demagogues or charismatic dictators... obviously, whatever they profess to believe in must be true if it brings them to power.

As far as the virtue of being silenced by a special interest group... you're absolutely right. However, precious few special interest groups run around silencing people. The idea that they do is pure propaganda. Fact is, "special interest groups" don't have the power or authority to shut people's speech down.

A radically conservative speaker is scheduled to give a speech at a college campus. Liberal groups object to the university giving air to what they see as his nonsense. They protest. The university changes its mind and unschedules the speaker.

Where is the silencing? It wasn't the liberal groups that uninvited the speaker... it was the university. And don't the liberal groups have a right to protest? Doesn't the university have a right to make a decision about whom to give a forum, based on whatever criteria it feels is best? The liberals exercised their rights, the university exercised its rights, and the speaker is still perfectly free to exercise his rights.
In response to English
What they SHOULD do is say why they disagree....

Would be nice:-)

I personally don't see much difference between the government silencing someone and an interest group or individual silencing someone. Neither should be done. This is in general of course, there are bound to be exceptions for the public good. But then again, who gets to decide what is for the public good?

Let me see if I can explain the difference. Government has the authority to deprive individuals of life, liberty, and property. Individuals do not possess this authority. Attempts to do so are generally criminal (or at least invoke civil liability). Government can pre-emptively disrupt speech (IE by inprisonment or execution) or punish it after the fact. An individual can not lawfully do so. Thus, government poses a potentially enormous obstacle to the exercise of free expression. The government could, for example, ban the word "some" and make it punishable by death. Individuals would *never* have this authority. Thus, our founding fathers wisely chose to limit or republican democracy by placing outer boundaries on what our government can do.


It doesn't necessarily make you hypocritical, but it is likely to make you look petty and only alienate the person you disagree with. If you call someone an idiot they will almost NEVER see your point or listen to what you have to say, it's really self defeating. If you really want to have an honest and open discussion calling someone any name is a surefire way to prevent that from happening, whether the name is accurate or not.

Unless your point is to demonize or belittle your opponent so as to polarize your supporters. Democrats and Republicans do it all the time to one another. Where do you think terms like "tax and spend liberal" and the "right wing conspiracy" come from?

-James (becomes more and more disgusted with politicos the more he learns, though he will still defend their right to be heard)
In response to Lesbian Assassin
Lesbian Assassin wrote:
If you just try to silence the opposition then you admit that there is a threat that what they are saying is true.

Senseless rhetoric... are you saying that to be objectionable, an idea has to be true? That people everywhere can only be swayed by truth? If that's the case, we have no need to fear demagogues or charismatic dictators... obviously, whatever they profess to believe in must be true if it brings them to power.

I said,"threat that what they are saying is true."
threat == danger (in the context of my statement)

A danger is just a possability. Obviously just because something is objectionable doesn't mean it's right. I'm just saying that there has to be a reason for silencing someone. Sometimes its because the silencers know they can't refute their claims and sometimes it's because their claims are rediculous. Whenever a group/person is silenced you have to ask what case it is. If it's the second case then I have no problem with silencing it, if it's the first case then that undermines our democratic system and I do have a problem with it. No one benefits when people/groups are scared/unable/unwilling to actually discuss the issues.

Fact is, "special interest groups" don't have the power or authority to shut people's speech down.

If something would have been accepted in the free market place but it is shut down do to pressuring high ups from an interest group, that is effectively silencing. It is technically true that it isn't "forcibly" silencing them but it's essentially the same thing.

A radically conservative speaker is scheduled to give a speech at a college campus. Liberal groups object to the university giving air to what they see as his nonsense. They protest. The university changes its mind and unschedules the speaker.

Where is the silencing? It wasn't the liberal groups that uninvited the speaker... it was the university. And don't the liberal groups have a right to protest? Doesn't the university have a right to make a decision about whom to give a forum, based on whatever criteria it feels is best? The liberals exercised their rights, the university exercised its rights, and the speaker is still perfectly free to exercise his rights.

This is a hard topic and I can see both sides on this one. On one hand Universities are supposed to be a forum for learning. Allowing a broader scope of speakers provides a larger oportunity for learning and facilitates a free exchange of ideas. In this sense almost all credible speakers (in their perspective fields) should be allowed to speak whether they are liberal, conservative, independant, or whatever. This means you don't have to have facilitate speeches by all the crazies who represent 1% of the population (not saying they're all crazy) but they should have a wide sweeping net.

If a University only has liberals speak, or only has conservatives speak then it is a failure in that area. If their goal is to create thoughtless, closeminded, idealogues then that's their business but I would never go to such a school.

Again, this falls into the area of what people can do and what they should do. They have every right to protest a speaker and the University (if it is private) has every right to reject any speaker it wants. However, I think disallowing someone to speak and represent their views speaks volumes about the protesters. It says that they don't want to hear opposing views and that they don't believe all voices should be heard.

Everything I've said is in general. There are speakers who are so extreme that they shouldn't be facilitated but some sort of balance should be struck.
In response to Jmurph
Your right that there is a difference but it is primarily in magnitude. Individuals can say,"if you say the word "wood" I'll have 30 million people boycott your store, I'll tell all my banks to reject your loans, I'll rally to have your suppliers reject you, and I'll run a large volume of smear adds against you to make you hated in our society."

Even though they can't "force" you to stop saying something they can make the consequences so great that you won't say it. That is what the government could do if we didn't have freedom of speach. They could say,"I'll sentence you do death if you say the word "wood"." They couldn't actually stop you from saying it but the consequences would be great enough to stop you from saying it.

See the parrallels?
In response to Lesbian Assassin
Ehm freedom of speach is an american thing, no? I'm sure there are quite a few countries that allow 'fredom of speach'. This is the internet you know :)
In response to Lesbian Assassin
The liberals exercised their rights, the university exercised its rights, and the speaker is still perfectly free to exercise his rights.

And the other 99.2% of the campus exercises their rights by ignoring the whole affair. God bless America!
I dont know why people started associating the word "Fag(got)" with Homosexuals

However, some names, have two meanings, depends on the context

Gay:
1:Happy (it was a gay ol' time)
2:Homosexual

Queer
1:Weird (it was a queer night)
2:Homosexual

[edit]
I also just thought of soemthing. The word 'fag' also means cigarette in britan, or england, don't remember which.
[edit]

he could have been calling people a Cigarette you know
In response to Pillsverry
Pillsverry wrote:
I guess that Faggot is the only name that doesnt have another meaning, alot of people use the word fag without knowing what it realy means

The word "faggot" is also used to refer to a piece of firewood, which is probably why in some places like the UK, "fag" can also mean a cigarette. So those, too, have other meanings.

Lummox JR
In response to Pillsverry
I think the term "laggot" is altogether more fun to use anyway.
In response to Foomer
I would assoicate 'laggot' with someone who spams a server with data packets to cause lag, I prefer 'Kat' to all insults, as Kat is a Pedlr(Female Dog)

:pillsverry
fryd dra vilg ec y Foomer??
In response to Gughunter
Gughunter wrote:
"as rude as you want"

Does that also mean hateful? (Anti[insert Mohammeds religeon here])
In response to Devil Man
The only person answerable for your game's content is you. If you wanted to make a game called "Super Baby Killer Blast 2002", no one would stop you. No one might like it, but no one would stop you.
In response to Lesbian Assassin
thanks! ;)
In response to Devil Man
Devil Man wrote:
thanks! ;)

<<shivers>>
In response to English
English wrote:
I'm just saying that there has to be a reason for silencing someone. Sometimes its because the silencers know they can't refute their claims and sometimes it's because their claims are rediculous.


And sometimes it's because you're on the phone.

In response to Flick
...riiiggggghhhht.........

*backs off slowly*
In response to Lesbian Assassin
Lesbian Assassin wrote:
The only person answerable for your game's content is you. If you wanted to make a game called "Super Baby Killer Blast 2002", no one would stop you. No one might like it, but no one would stop you.

Note that there's a difference between intensely discourage and stop you.

If I saw something similar to SBKB2K2 anywhere, I would send some incredibly violent messages to its owner -- that's not something I normally do, either.
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