RTS, Tactical Shooters, FPS, and RPG's all look at death in a different and unique way. In real time stategy, the player builds masses of units, and recklessly sends them to their doom. Tactical Shooters- You have a team, and your team starts goin down. You may cuss, but you don't really care. In a FPS, the object is to kill the other guy, but if you die, you can always re-spawn. In RPG's death is nothing, except a loss of help, since there is always a shrine to heal at. Well, real combat isn't like that. Real combat inspires fear, sadness, and other emotions. So can the threat of death be realistically represented in a game? In particular, a MMORPG that takes place during WWII?
As a game designer, I have pondered this subject many a time, and came up with a few solutions. My solution, a controversial one, is CK. No exceptions, no resurrects, just plain character death. I'm sure you can see the problem in this.
What I'm looking for is not a number solution, where players will be mad, but where they can grow attached to their character, and feel real emotion when he dies, or a friend does. Is this possible?
ID:154129
 May 22 2002, 9:43 am
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Heheh...I remember playing a strict-RP MUD in which I was a cook. After a while at the local tavern I got hungry and started munching some nuts. One got lodged in my throat and I choked to death while the patrons looked on. I drop to the floor with a dramatic exit, and the peanut pops out of my mouth and rattles to the floor. :)
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man, and I thought getting blown off your horse by the wind, falling over a cliff, and cracking your neck was a lame way to die...
But I'm not looking at design for a RPG, more of an action game, which as I said, is set in WWII. I'm not actually making this game, but I do think up ways to handle things often. For this situation, I was wondering how it would be handled for a retail game, which means there will be many stupid people. | |
You could:
Get innocent civilians in harm's way. Allow players to see things from the perspective of the enemy so they can relate to them before they have to fight them. Give the players letters/packages from home. Make the players read letters to the families of the deceased. Whatever you do, allow the players to keep something of what they accomplished. If they had to build up their character, give them something for their next character instead of making them wonder why they just shelled out money to get killed. In story terms, perhaps you do something like assigning their next character to the same unit. | |
Ive been waiting for someone to say that. I thought I was alone on that. That would be for hardcore gamers only. My game will be like that. But I'm thinking you can become a ghost or a monster once you die. But when your monster dies its GAME OVER for you.
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I heard this somewhere.
Say each person has a karma relating to the realm they live on. Each time you die, you lose some of that karma. I think Deadron,Lexy, or Foomer made the post... | |
Airson wrote:
about the innocent civilian thing, don't really think that would work... look at GTA 3. It depends on the context. I'd be playing a psycho criminal in the GTA series. (Missions? What missions?) However, I could be playing a soldier or medic in a WWII game. Even in the GTA series, I might get upset if someone else killed my target. Sure, I might not care that the person died, but the kill was mine. I'd have to kill the killer to quench my bloodlust. | |
Airson wrote:
about the innocent civilian thing, don't really think that would work... look at GTA 3. You are aware that Allied troops would probably be court-martialled during the World War for shooting civilians, even by accident? (If it was "intentional", they mistook the civilian for an enemy target. "Accidental" implies ricochets and stray bullets.) Same goes for modern Canadian Peacekeepers, too; unless they're given the go-ahead to fire, shooting a civilian or soldier -- even if he/she is armed and attacking -- is an offense punishable by court-martial. In WW2 it's unlikely that soldiers would be on the list of targets not to shoot, but the civilians would still apply. =P | |
Sariat wrote:
I heard this somewhere. Spuzzum said that in my topic of Perma Death too :P --Lee | |
In my game that is being developed you have a chance to be revived by your team before you are permanently killed. If no one is on your team your rushed to a civilian hospital and given extra time.
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Hmm... instead of perma-death (which makes a lot of players get fed up and leave), why not have them send to a hospital when they 'die' with a timer on them. Depending on the severity of the injury the timer is longer. Then set it up so thier abilities slowly regenerate over the length of the timer. That way they -have- to stay in the hospital for at least some of the time. Set the timer to save with the char too tho, so they cant just log out and log back in fine.
Example You get shot in the chest by the enemy~ You awaken to find yourself in a bed in the infirmiry. You find yourself injured so badly you cant even breath without mechanical assistance. You're stuck in the bed! <later> A nurse comes and removes the breathing apparatus from your bed, you can breathe on your own again! However, this is a moot point as you still cant move... <later> You slowly become able to move your body. You can get up from your bed now! **course, you can only move -really- slowly. Then slowly rev up thier movement speed till usual. ^^ Just an idea. Having forced downtime for death, altho not completely loosing the character, may solve some problems. It would also have the added effect of getting idiot players and PKers to leave, and still keep people that would otherwise be fed up by permadeath around. ^^ El | |
Elorien wrote:
[snip] Having forced downtime for death, altho not completely loosing the character, may solve some problems. It would also have the added effect of getting idiot players and PKers to leave, and still keep people that would otherwise be fed up by permadeath around.[snip] A delay will not make PKers leave. Delays are often used as it is. All they mean is the PKer has to wait a bit before killing someone again. If the PKer is killed, the PKer just has to wait a bit to kill again. Permadeath tends to ward off many PK-abusers because those they tick off can wipe them out of the game. | |
A delay will not make PKers leave. Delays are often used as it is. All they mean is the PKer has to wait a bit before killing someone again. If the PKer is killed, the PKer just has to wait a bit to kill again. Yea, but the method I described could do that to an extent too. Im not talking about a little 1 or 2 min timeout, Im talking about a fairly lengthy amount of time. A pker usually lives offa making as many people miserable as possible in as little time as possible, if thier stuck in a bed for an -enforced- 10-15 mins or so, thier not gonna wanna stick around. Not to mention also that a group of non-pkers could strike back with little repurcussion, ending the pker up in the hospital again. It wont work -as well- as permadeath, but it doesnt have the downsides of permadeath either.. El, who personally hates permadeath games @.@;; | |
I like what you're saying, but I think I found a better idea.
First off, PD gets it done. Players will feel the fear of combat, and people WILL pay for being too cocky. Player's won't risk their friends lifes, and will generally act their alignment (Good: Willing to risk theirselves for others, Evil: using others as cannon fodder). But, players don't need to PD instantly when killed. As in D&D, I think a bleed to death system would work fine. ie: A player has 10 HP, was stupid enough to adventure out alone, and was shot for 10 damage. Sense his hp is at 0, he falls unconcious, and it slowly drops lower, until it reaches the inverse (-10). At that point, if he has not been healed, he dies. For good. Now, considering that I'm making an RPG, I'll probaly include wishes (Called Psionic Gifts) that can actually bring a character back to life, even after he has been PD'ed. These will be as rare and limited as a real wish is though. once again, I'm out... | |
Sounds cool, I was going to do something like this, but I was only gonna keep 'em in the hospital for a few secs (30) I think this will be better. Thanks for inspiring me!
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Sariat wrote:
Sounds cool, I was going to do something like this, but I was only gonna keep 'em in the hospital for a few secs (30) I think this will be better. Thanks for inspiring me! *grin* Thanks for saying so ^_^ thats what I love about byond. I may be a worse coder then most dbzers out there, but at least my ideas sometimes get out ^_____^ El | |
Hmm...
Well, just make it so stats don't matter as much as skill. That way, none of the power gamers will really complain. Also, make a death countdown only for thing like wounds and poisons. After all, who's going to survive being cut in half? | |
what about creating a bunch of characters inside the game then letting the player select one he(the player) would "own" that character until he or she or it dies then that character is gone for ever.
just a thought | |
My poor little guy was just starting to make friends, too. And he had a nice hiking trip planned for the next morning. :o(
On the same note, permadeath keeps people from risking their character in stupid ways, like running up and attacking a bear with a stick...But then, stupid people deserve to die ;o)