Dec 15 2002, 5:40 pm
In response to Dareb
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Sariat
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Yes mien commendant!
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The role-playing game term was pioneered by Gary Gigax, creator of Dungeons & Dragons (though he didn't invent RPG's, he defined them) and my god, would he be disappointed in this thread. In his recent interview in Game Developer Mag. he even scorned pen and paper games created by White Wolf because they referred to the Game Master as a Storyteller. The entire principle of RPG's is that you act out a role, making your own decisions as though you were that character, so currently, there is no game engine powerful enough to make a true RPG since they must all be linear to some extent (there's always limitations to what you can do). However, certain video games are classified as RPG's, but only in the video game sense of the term, and this is really a matter of opinion. Some believe that any game in which there is a progressive plot (beginning and end) is an RPG, others believe that it must contain a turn-based battle system (lest it become an adventure game).
The sad truth is, no video game is a true RPG in its true sense. But we, as humans, need to cram everything into categories, so they choose one for lack of a better term. | |
Krosse wrote:
The sad truth is, no video game is a true RPG in its true sense. But we, as humans, need to cram everything into categories, so they choose one for lack of a better term. I disagree. I think every game can be a true RPG to the right mind. Please read my previous posts on the topic. Post [link] Post [link] A different way to look at it from the one I expressed in those two threads, if you aren't a roleplayer you can rip the role playing out of any game, even the supposed massive multiplayer online "role playing" games. Many players reduce MMORPGs into a number crunching slugfest. They don't care about developing character, they care that Bork has a stat of 103 while their stat is only 102. They use cheats to circumvent the rules of the game. Thy use open channels to talk about the latest Star Wars movie or computer updates. They are in an RPG, but is any of that role playing? Roleplaying is a style of playing games, not a type of game. If you really need a label, try "adventure" or "action adventure". "Role playing" is too broad and is based more on the player than the game. | |
Krosse wrote:
The entire principle of RPG's is that you act out a role, making your own decisions as though you were that character, so currently, there is no game engine powerful enough to make a true RPG since they must all be linear to some extent (there's always limitations to what you can do). Oh, you are so wrong! It is entirely possible for an online computer game to feature a DM and players, in a DnD environment, and then for the DM to compile the game on the fly, allowing for any multitude of choices. The only difference here is that you can't force the players (not the characters) to do something in specific outside of hte game for whatever reason. Although this is somewhat more complicated, it can be done. | |
I believe that the technology exists. Its just that people are too afraid to use it, or develope it.
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thats not what he means at all.
We are speaking Online Persistant Constant Worlds that live breath and evolve around the players and NPCs sole actions. This can be done, nobody has tried. | |
dont let them see the stats of their characters.
Add strict rules enforced by players AND NPCs to prevent people from going too nutty (unless they develope a massive guild and actually put thought into things *god forbid*) Already you have powergamers turning into arena gladiators or rogue guilds. They roleplay before they know they are roleplaying. | |
It seems to me, that no one really knows what an rpg is, we now really need a new classification instead of rpg. Rpg is being used way to much, and people are forgetting what an rpg is. FF is more of a mud, but sort of an rpg. Personally i hate the FF series due to there stupid as random combat system(that just annoyed me). Where as Zelda, is an RPG, you are Link, you need to save Zelda and defeat Gannon! Now thats an rpg, you dont have levels, or stats. We use the fact if a game has stats, then it must be an rpg.
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I've seen those solutions used before and wish you luck with them. You asked what a role playing game is and I gave you the answer. Roleplaying is a state of mind that can be applied to any game.
Did you read the other posts I linked to? You didn't respond to any of the issues in them. | |
Mrhat99au wrote:
It seems to me, that no one really knows what an rpg is, we now really need a new classification instead of rpg. Rpg is being used way to much, and people are forgetting what an rpg is. FF is more of a mud, but sort of an rpg. Personally i hate the FF series due to there stupid as random combat system(that just annoyed me). Where as Zelda, is an RPG, you are Link, you need to save Zelda and defeat Gannon! Now thats an rpg, you dont have levels, or stats. We use the fact if a game has stats, then it must be an rpg. The Legend of Zelda games are sold as "action adventure". It is no more an RPG than Final Fantasy or Tomb Raider. Those games put you in a role and give you a linear series of puzzles you must solve to complete the game's goal. Sure you can role play in those games, but the game in and of itself is irrelevant to role playing. I roleplay when playing Monopoly. :P I create a persona with his own personality and goals external to the game mechanics. I agree totally that the term "role playing" is overused in the gaming industry. Games should be categorized by their mechanics. "First person shooter", "platform game", "driving game", "sports game", "board games"; you can't argue with those distinctions because they are the only way to actively participate in the game. "Action adventure" is a grey area. It usually means you have a number of different sorts of puzzles to complete the game goal. "RPG" is extremely vague, and seems to imply an "adventure" game (not necessarily "action") that dumps a load of stats in your face. Ask any seasoned pen & paper role player how much character there is in a collection of stats. Stats don't make a living persona. Stats don't define the role playing experience. What is a roleplaying game? A roleplaying game is a game that role players play. The mechanics are negligible. | |
Metallica wrote:
I would have to say that a Role Playing Game is any game in which you assume the Role of another person in a fantasy world. But that's pretty broad, so I dont' really know. Most programmers think that Turn Based combat games like FFX are what they consider RPG'S. But then again, wasn't A Link To The Past an RPG? It doesn't even need to be in a fantasy setting. There are several games (historical, modern spies, etc.) that take place in a real world with real events, nothing really "fantastic" to speak of (except of course that you are still technically a "hero"). As far as computer games being RPG's. Granted, MMORPG's came to mind as I was writing the post, but even those have a certain number of actions you can perform. Now, if a "GM" were to reprogram everytime a new situation arose, that doesn't exactly meet the standards of a completed game that people play, it's simply a pen and paper RPG, but the players read an ever changing computer screen instead, and now, when they do something unexpected, they have to wait longer for the GM to figure out what to do about it. | |
Dareb wrote:
yes, this is exactly my point.. This will happen shortly after we instill world peace. Nobody can agree entirely, even on simple matters such as this. Classifying anything outside of pen and paper RPG's as an RPG was just a bad idea to begin with. Instead we should classify them by solid facts about the game (side-scrolling sci-fi, 3d medieval, etc.) | |
when i get into the gaming industry..
I will only empower one of my titles with a single world that will rock the foundations of the gaming industry. Oh by the way, BMX XXX is at most EB stores now. | |
a true RPG would allow you to be good/evil allow you to do anything with realistic consequences. It would have a working economy where NPCs deal with eachother.
If you wanted to be a builder, build.. if you want to be farmer, farm... hunt if your a hunter, drag animal carcasses back to a leathercrafter to make a few coins. True, even with todays comprehensive technologies in regards to gaming we still cannot do EVERYTHING. there would be limitations,, but not limitations in a world. Limitations such as, Not being able to dig your own cavernous hide-outs. or. Not being able to float buildings and use them as vehicles. Many games make mountains as boundaries. BIG NO-GO, mountains are naturally dangerous, with steep slopes, long falls, frigid weather, avalanches, landslides, even ferocious and hungry creatures. The ONLY reason you people think that this cannot be done is because youve played games that were built in stone. Like UO.. could they easily make it so people could swim in water? or climb mountains? no? why? Because they designed the game to make it so they CANT. in time.. I CAN | |
I believe that if a rpg is being designed, it should be a series of skills that the player can work on, but never see.
Levels do not work well in RPGs, online games, sometimes. it depends how the overall game is made | |
Dareb wrote:
very well, ill go play that new Gran Turismo RPG right now Aha! I see you finally understand. ;) | |