How about some ideas for some non-RPG BYOND games? Lets face it, unless you're going to go all the way and creating a totally new interface, your RPG would probably just be like every other RPG on BYOND anyway. But there are plenty of other areas open for ideas. How about strategy games. Turn-based strategy, for one. There are so many avenues open for strategy games, and BYOND can do an excellent job of handling them, too. (Assuming you can get around not having text on the screen itself, but that, I believe, will be solved in BYOND 4.0) While I admit that I haven't played them all, looking at the games in the strategy section doesn't turn up a whole lot of games that can truely be called strategy games.
We have Star Traders (which frankly, would probably be better off listed as an RPG), Bombard (technically strategy, but not much beyond aiming your turret), Nyctophobia (strategy, you have to be more clever in deciding which lightbults to position yourself under and outmenuever everyone else), and several more than I haven't played. LaserWars and Incursion are two of the better examples of games that really deserve to be called Strategy games.
In LaserWars, you have to be very clever in positioning the numerous objects to direct your laserfire towards the opponents, while at the same time directing enemy laserfire away from you. This is a game where you really have to stay alert and plan ahead. If you're not alert, you'll be blasted by one of the other players before you know it. And if you're not careful in your planning, your approach will be so obvious to the other players that they'll have little trouble disarming your attack. Now that's strategy.
In Incursion, while the game itself is a reletively simple concept of moving around resources and units, while attacking other territories and claiming them as your own, there is an awful lot of thought that has to go into everything you do. If you take over too much territory, you could spread your forces too thin and make yourself an easy target for the other players. On the other hand, if you fail to spread, your forces may be too weak to deal with players that have succeeded in expanding their empires. If you aren't careful where you put your resources, the enemy will have easy access to them. Do you store your resources on the borders where your armies are defending, so that they can have the best defense possible (but potentially lost in raids)? Or do you store them deeper in your territory, where they could be vulnerable to an assault that penetrates your borders, where your forces must be divided to protect everything. Not to mention all the secret diplomacy that happens between players.
Those are just two examples of games that BYOND is well suited to support. Although both of those games, in my opinion, are underplayed. If you ever get tired of dealing with all the difficulties that building an RPG has to offer, you might take a break from it and try your hands at a Strategy game sometime. (Making things turned based really isn't all that difficult, and I'm sure there are plenty of people here who would be more eager to help someone create a new strategy game rather than showing another person how to make an attack verb.)
Just a suggestion to hopefully inspire some people. BYOND has plenty of RPGs, and to put it bluntly, most of them are crap, even if they are the result of someone's hard work. Why not try your hands at something that's a little more likely to succeed?
Well, that's my rant for today.
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ID:153655
Jun 21 2003, 9:27 pm
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In response to DarkView
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DarkView wrote:
Id like to see Lummox JR try, since he seems to have the right sort of mind, and is efficient enough to have hordes of AI oppontents attacking you while still keeping the lowest CPU useage possible. Lummox JR made Incursion, so he already has done something like this. =) I heard something about Deadron making a Civ-like game, which I am looking forward to (as I'm sure many other people are, too). Clash is probably BYOND's best RTS. I've never played it on a particularly fast server, but on a good connection it has the potential to be great. |
Not that I'll ever finish anything, but RPGs on my end are the exception, not the norm.
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In response to Crispy
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W00T! Go clash! You know! I Just Love Clash! I think i could rant all day! go clash go! I Kinda like yelling like this! Maybe! Ill! Go! Do! This! More! Often! What! Do! You! Think!?
P!.S!. I love clash! <FONT size = 2>Beat your record crispy :D</FONT> |
In response to Jermman
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Such a shame that Malver doesnt really code in BYOND anymore.. :I
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In response to Maz
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Maz wrote:
Such a shame that Malver doesnt really code in BYOND anymore.. :I I don't? Wow, Maz gets news about me even before I do! :) |
In response to Malver
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He must be confusing a post-apocalyptic future with the present. Being able to see the future has its drawbacks, no?
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In response to Crispy
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Especially when you foresee that your visions of conquest don't come to fruition.
*continues tinkering with his Genesis device* |
In response to Spuzzum
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You're never going to finish that, you know. :P You'd be better buying a SEGA Genesis and rigging a fusion reactor onto it.
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In response to Jon88
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Quiet, before I summon my Legions of Terror. (Currently they only consist of my cat hopped up on catnip, but I'm looking into expanding my forces.)
I've successfully managed to get the Genesis device to play "Invisible Touch" in stereo, but unfortunately all that does is upset my Legions of Terror. |
In response to Spuzzum
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I have a couple of hopped up cats you can take. :P
p.s. I would love to see a good Shining Force remake, I thought of trying it myself, but it's way too complicated for me. I do have some icons made from RPG maker sets if anyone would like them to make one just page mail me. :) |
In response to Jnco904
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English has a demo of one on his hub. Check it out and try to make him work on it like I am. He just hasn't been on at all for ages.
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In response to Maz
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Cool, will do. :)
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In response to Jnco904
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Ill tell you one thing...DBZ games are getting old...
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Foomer wrote:
But there are plenty of other areas open for ideas. How about strategy games. Turn-based strategy, for one. There are so many avenues open for strategy games, and BYOND can do an excellent job of handling them, too. (Assuming you can get around not having text on the screen itself, but that, I believe, will be solved in BYOND 4.0) The DDT is well under way with a turn-based strategy game that we're pretty excited about. And it uses text on the screen, which works quite well, thanks to Lummox's library. This is one of the couple of games I really came to BYOND to make, and I love how it's coming together. We've designed it from the ground up to overcome some of the problems that commercial games like Civilization III have...for example, playing by email in Civ3 sucks, because Civ can't show you a replay of the turn that just happened. But our game has that designed in from the beginning. I won't get into the details now, but I agree that this type of game is very under-represented in BYOND, and that BYOND is a pretty good engine for them. That wasn't true when I first encountered the system (for example, fog of war wouldn't have really been possible), but it is true now. |
In response to Deadron
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Hmm! I'm looking forward to seeing your game. I've gotten back into working on my global economic strategy game, so seeing more strategy games in general would be a good thing.
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In response to Spuzzum
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Spuzzum wrote:
Hmm! I'm looking forward to seeing your game. I've gotten back into working on my global economic strategy game, so seeing more strategy games in general would be a good thing. The ultimate game should be pretty ambitious (hostable, email-playable, AI players), but hopefully we can keep from sinking it in complexity by being very incremental about it. Working on the AI now, which is the first *real* AI I've been involved with. There's some fun AI in Living & Dead, but it's not of the "let me create a strategy" type. I've done a reasonable amount of looking around for literature on the subject of strategic AI, but haven't found much of use yet; much of it is too academic for my tastes (though I guess I really should get a handle on Finite State Machines...for all I know, that's what our model boils down to). Should make for at least one BYONDscape article eventually... |
In response to Deadron
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Deadron wrote:
I've done a reasonable amount of looking around for literature on the subject of strategic AI, but haven't found much of use yet; much of it is too academic for my tastes (though I guess I really should get a handle on Finite State Machines...for all I know, that's what our model boils down to). Finite State Machines? Sounds ... complicated, but interesting! Should make for at least one BYONDscape article eventually... Yes, please. =) Looking forward to the game (and the article)! |
In response to Crispy
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This isn't directed at anyone in particular -- it's just helpful info for those who are interested in Finite State Machines.
Finite State Machines, in a nutshell, are AI routines which allow the AI to measure a situation and determine a standardised "plan" to follow. There are only a certain number of plans to select from, but because they are based on logical actions based on the decision, they can give an extreme semblance to realistic tactics. In other words, Finite State Machines often lead to what is known as Emergent Behaviour -- logic that you didn't code, yet which your AI seems to have. One good example of a Finite State Machine AI with emergent behaviour is one which causes creatures to want to feel safe, happy, and courageous, and to take steps necessary to meet those demands. You program in functionality to make them feel less "safe" if they're not with others of their kind. Because they feel less safe when alone, they'll tend to stick with others of their kind, banding together for protection, but without you, as the programmer, programming anything that tells them to band together! Generally, most strategy games don't involve much strategy in their AI procedures (and most strategy game AIs cheat, in that they know where the player is). Typically, a strategy game AI takes advantage of the fact that it isn't limited by a user interface to beat the player. Almost all strategy they perform is done directly as a result of a script set forth by the programmers, causing the AI to be almost entirely incapable of adapting itself to a situation as desired. The utopian dream is for a strategy AI which acts just as a human would -- that is, one which measures the capabilities of its units, determines the capabilities of its adversary, and counters those capabilities by attempting to take advantage of weaknesses in its foe's defences. This doesn't simply involve matching whatever forces the AI can see, however -- it involves intelligently attempting to discern the strength of the adversary's forces without actually being able to see them at all. For example, a human player would think, Hmm, that's a fighter craft. That must mean that there's an airbase or an aircraft carrier nearby. AI -- at least as has been evidenced thus far -- lacks the power of deduction. |
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Its only likily to succeed in the sense that it will have a huge chunk of the market when completed. The problem lies in completing it.
No offence to anyone, but the newer members of the BYOND Dev community cant usually get their heads around so many vars, atom types, ect.
Id like to see Lummox JR try, since he seems to have the right sort of mind, and is efficient enough to have hordes of AI oppontents attacking you while still keeping the lowest CPU useage possible.
I would love to take on a project like a turn based strategy game, mainly since attempts to copy it and show me up would be low, but I have 2 other projects and a short attention span.
In a month or so when my bigger project is complete I may take on your challange Foomer.
Good rant.