Not really, dogs know that humans take care of them, they are geneticaly prone to like humans now. But, it would be ok to kill a dog who is trying to kill you, but it is not ok to kill a dog who is trying to love or leave you. I feel the same way about humans. If a human is trying to kill me, and my only option to stop him is to kill him, i will, and i wont feel to bad about it. But if someone is trying to love me or leave me alone, im not about to try to kill him.
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That may be so, but can we not make a computer to do the same? It is nothing special. I know of machines that can get thought mazes complex mazes in notime flat. They are not intelligent, they cannot feel pain, they can sence that there is light above them, so they go to it, that is not so special, we can have a computer that sences light and moves to it. Hell, we can combine the maze and the light one and make one that goes to light at the end of a maze. What is your point there?
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Well, that may be true, but what is it about animals that means they automatically deserve consideration?
There's plenty of animals that don't give a damn about anyone than themselves... for every heroic, noble horse they right books about, there's a herd stallion somewhere that stomps foals to death because they're born weak or belonged to another stallion or it was just bored. Dolphins. Everyone knows dolphins are cute and intelligent, right? Well, intelligent doesn't equal nice. Some dolphins are playful and cooperative, but some dolphins are violent are take advantage of other dolphins by force... and everyone forgets that dolphins are carnivores, i.e., predators. There's plenty of stories about dogs saving their owner's lives... there's also plenty of stories about dogs that kill people. They're not always previously abused dogs, either. Some dogs are just that way. You can say it's instinct or nature or whatever and so we can't blame animals... well, we're animals, too, and we have our own instincts and our own nature. We're not separate from other animals or above them in any way, there's not a clean line drawn through the universe with "nature" on one side and "us" on the other. We are part of the natural order of things. And contrary to what many will claim... we're also not the only animal that kills its own kind, the only animal that will use up the resources in an area without regard for the future, or the only animal that pollutes. Almost every animal does all of these things to varying degrees. We just happen to be wide-spread and very secure in our niche, which means that we do it the most. If another animal were at the top at the moment, they'd be having the biggest impact on the environment. In short, "cruelty to animals" should be called "cruelty to other animals" if we're going to insist on treating it differently from "cruelty to humans." | |
Really, i think hunting for sport should be illigal, unless it is in moderation to keep population down, but the whole reason that is needed is because we have been hunting, so the hunted animals reproduce faster.
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yeah but that is a form of basic artafical intelligense, this is a form of real intelligense. if you know what you are doing you can make a computer do anything.
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Interestingly enough, if you take a look at a human's physical body... we are nothing but a computer that happens to be made out of organic parts. We have parts that explain how our central processor (brain) can register contact with a surface, or damage to our other parts... but there's nothing in us, no "magic" part that lets us actually "feel pain".
If you put together a complex computer in a robot body that can do everything the human body can, would that computer have consciousness the way that you and I do? If not, then why not? Where does our consciousness come from? An intangible "soul"? Well, who's to say that anything capable of reacting to its environment doesn't have that same kind of "soul"? Even if an artificial robot doesn't, what about trees? The body of a tree responds to injury... who's to say that doesn't register as pain in the tree's "soul"? | |
the whole reason that is needed is because we have been hunting, so the hunted animals reproduce faster. Interesting assertion. How exactly does that work? Animals, with very few exceptions, reproduce every chance they get. Even if they did "reproduce faster" because we hunt them, then even with hunting overpopulation wouldn't be a problem because once they reached the optimal level wouldn't they stop? Of course they wouldn't. They'd keep reproducing until something (predators or privation) knocked them back down again. | |
Can you please point me to correct resources that tell you that dogs are "genetically prone" to like humans. From what I can tell you, puppies are cute but a lot of them are aggressive towards people, unless of course you domesticate them as early as possible. And if dogs were somehow genetically mutated into liking people, then there would be no dog attacks against us since they HAVE to like people, their genetics wouldn't allow them to deny that.
<<>>Kusanagi<<>> | |
Scoobert wrote:
Really, i think hunting for sport should be illigal, unless it is in moderation to keep population down, but the whole reason that is needed is because we have been hunting, so the hunted animals reproduce faster. we should NOT interfear with it at all we should let nature take it's own course, we will only be killing other things to make it better for us, not them they will be the hunted, for what reasons, a pointless one, one the "human race" made to make it better for the "human race". | |
Intelligense is intelligence, it doesnt matter if it is man made or natural, it is all the same. I dont see why people put such a line in the sand about that. Why do you see a computer so diffrent from a animal, or plant? To me, there are 4 types of life(if there are normaly only 3), backterial, plant, animal, and computer. Why not say they are a type of life, they are, they just arnt fully developed yet. We have taken billions of years to make, and it all started with one cell. Well, would you say that one cell is not life? No, you would not, because you know it to be life, but what about computers, they all started with one switch, one relay, and look were they are now, they are actualy designing themselfs now(to a small exstent). That is what is called reproduction. That is one of the classifications of life. It fits many more, but i cant remember them all. So just sit there and rethink what you see as life and intelligense.
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It does think, but instead of choosing any choice, it goes with the one that it calculates to be the most succesful. Trees and computers are different in the way that one is organic, one is not, one is man made, one is natural. By your way of the natural order, if we made a computer that looked like a human and had artificial intelligence, then it would be a human.
<<>>Kusanagi<<>> | |
I completely agree with Kunark. I think anyone that tortures or abuses animals (other than humans) for their own sick pleasure deserves a fitting death- like to be set on fire for a minute, then tossed in a pool filled with pirannas, taken out and beaten to death with metal pipes.
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They don't design themselves, we design them, they build theirselves, therefore you could call us God in that theory.
<<>>Kusanagi<<>> | |
Well, think of it this way, you are born and see your mom, you know it is your mom, how? Who knows, but you remember her, and never forget her, and it becomes hard to do anything to harm them. But not everyone sees it that way, some people are very mean to thier moms, they will hit them, yell at them, and whatever else they can think of. Now dogs dont instantly know that a human is a human, but if you feed a dog once, you will see you as a source of food.
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By your way of the natural order, if we made a computer that looked like a human and had artificial intelligence, then it would be a human. Seriously, explain why it wouldn't be. We calculate the choice we think will be the most successful, too... in other words, we always do "what seems to be best at the time," and when we're wrong, it's because we received incorrect or incomplete data or we started from an incorrect assumption or a poor working definition. Computers complex enough to take into account everything that we do would be susceptible to the same errors. Yes, we're organic and computers aren't. So adding carbon and nucleic acids to something makes it "magic"? | |
Cruelty to anything can be considered both bad, and good. Its all in the eyes of who your talking to.
Example: You see a kid tormenting a dog on the side of the street. Prospective : Most people would see this as a bad thing, I myself see this as a bad thing. Example 2: A serial killer violently, and slowly kills 2 people. He is then put on death row, left there to wait for his turn for 4 months, and then killed. Prospective : Alot of people would see this as sheer justice, and alot of others would see this as just plain wrong. In conclusion : It's hard and probably pointless to debate on topics like these in the BYOND forums (Althought I myself would like alot of it to stop). Talking about it here will most likely get nothing accomplished. If you want to do something about it talk to people around your community, and your friend's communites. | |
We help design them, and they help design themselfs. We tell them what we want, and they tell us if it will work, and maybie if there is a better way to do it, so we dont just design them, they help, a lot.
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No, we don't know its our mom, all we know is that we came out of the person and now we are being taken care of by creatures we have never seen, and after a while we learn that this women is our mother and she is there to nurse us till we develop into a full grown human. We don't recognize anything, we just find out that the word mom happens to explain somebody who takes care of us.(Or should at least.)
<<>>Kusanagi<<>> | |
how do you know that tress dont feel, they are still semi intelligent, they grow towards light, they can get through mazes, i reed in a book that if you get a shoe box and make a maze and have a hold in the top and plant the plant at the bottom and put the lid on, it will find it's way through. some plants are quite amazing using scent as a bait, the venus fly trap for example, it smells so sweet, but it's bite is deadly.