ID:153270
 Aug 5 2004, 12:09 pm
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Should a MMORPG have a story? Some of my friends say they should and some say they don't... would a MMORPG be better with or without one? Can I have some opinions and reasons? Thx!
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A game is always better with a story. However, an MMORPG presents a unique problem. How do you provide a story in which players are free to do what they want? Most MMORPG players want to play a game where they feel empowered within the world (even though most MMORPGs have several cookie-cutter roles that people fill). Forcing a story on them will likely lose their patronage. Also, how do you account for the passage of time? Is the same thing happening year in and year out? That would get monotonous. If the story does change as the game progresses, how does it.
Finally, the thing that really keeps MMORPGs from benifitting from a story is the fact that by it's very nature an MMORGP never ends. It never has closure. A story is comprised of three parts: a beginning, a middle, and an end. MMORPGs lack the last one. That being said, an over-arching background story is definately possible. FFXI has one of the better implementations of "story" that I have seen, although it falls under the heading of "same thing is always happening". Some other differences between RPGs and MMORPGS:
These and many more differences are why storytelling and MMORPGs rarely go together. Come to think of it, these are also some reasons why actual role-playing rarely goes on in a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. | |
sapphiremagus wrote:
A game is always better with a story. However, an MMORPG presents a unique problem. How do you provide a story in which players are free to do what they want? Most MMORPG players want to play a game where they feel empowered within the world (even though most MMORPGs have several cookie-cutter roles that people fill). Forcing a story on them will likely lose their patronage. Also, how do you account for the passage of time? Is the same thing happening year in and year out? That would get monotonous. If the story does change as the game progresses, how does it. I always thought roleplaying games or RPG's for short had role playing in them. As in the players in the game take on a role of what ever sort. Now the question that needs to be made clear is this. Who should decide the role? If the game decides it for the person they might not like the role the AI has chosen for them and thuse not want to play any more or create a new character. If they choose the role it might be mishandled and in doing so not go well with the games environmental structure. So is there some magical way to save people from angry spazams while still keeping the environmental structure? NO! Orginally rpg's were made to have game masters or gm's for short.To control the players role. This role would be supervised by the gm. The player could react as he would at his own personality but only to a limit given by the gm. If the player says he suddenly grabs a super killer weapon and starts slashing about he would be punshed by the gm. The creation of items and quest and the purpose of the quest was made by the gm. Finally, the thing that really keeps MMORPGs from benifitting from a story is the fact that by it's very nature an MMORGP never ends. It never has closure. A story is comprised of three parts: a beginning, a middle, and an end. MMORPGs lack the last one. Not true an MMORPG can end at any time. Either by the server going down or the GM or head of staff say so. This might not go to good with players who have been playing for a while. But hey what goes up might come down O.o or maybe not :P. So why even play an mmorpg then to get all those levels and then a pwipe? Well thats the gm's or staff's problem not myn. They are the ones who are suppose to make the story line the main factor in there game. Not levels or xp. Thats the whole point of rp. Hasent any one every heard its not were you go but how you get there that counts? As long as you have fun playing in an rp whats it matter what level your are or how much xp youve gained. That being said, an over-arching background story is definately possible. FFXI has one of the better implementations of "story" that I have seen, although it falls under the heading of "same thing is always happening".
These and many more differences are why storytelling and MMORPGs rarely go together. Come to think of it, these are also some reasons why actual role-playing rarely goes on in a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. | |
If you're intent on making a game with role-playing expected, you may as well call it an Online Role-Playing story instead.
If role-playing like this did just originate from game masters watching to make sure the players stay in their roles, that's just fine. But as time goes by and the meaning of RPG changes into something else, then it sounds like a stretch to assume people will associate MMORPG with trying to stay in character. You can't really force a person to want to gain a bunch of levels if he really wants to roleplay so why should it be any different the other way around? | |
MMORPG with story = Bad... Doesn't work right with online environments.
RPG with story = Good. MMORPG without any sort of storytelling = ----BAD, CRAPPY GAME THAT I WILL DISPISE YOU FOREVOR IF YOU MAKE!---- MMORPG with a setting and history, emersing you into an environment rich in tales and rumors, that allows you to explore those tales/rumors = Good. Do you want to end up making a Mystic Journey/Seika clone? Because if you have no story in it, that's all you'll have. | |
A game is always better with a story. Gah it's this awful mindset that has turned many recent games to crap(well a lot of them would have been crap anyway :P). Story like graphics, sound, and any other media for the game serves only to make a first impression and generally is largely ignored once you get into the game play. If the game sucks and you are still playing for the plot you might as well just print the script and read it since you aren't playing the game for the reason it is a game. Story of all these things is the worst since generally it can't be done in such a way as to be interupting to the game itself(though there are some clever tricks to do like C&C Generals did by having the mission briefing done while the level loads). Graphics and sounds can be interupting but generaly if they are the developers really screwed up. Finally, the thing that really keeps MMORPGs from benifitting from a story is the fact that by it's very nature an MMORGP never ends. It never has closure. A story is comprised of three parts: a beginning, a middle, and an end. MMORPGs lack the last one. Heh I generally get to the last one quickly. Slow painful progression to get to anything interesting makes them feel like work not games. Nothing like chopping lumber in UO for a few hours to gain a small bit of cash selling various wood works or kill bats and rats for a few hours in Everquest to gain a few levels.
Meh there are some games so awful that I just cheat to see if it ever gets interesting. Generally though they don't. MMORPGS: Cheating is a witch-hunt, all cheaters must burn for they have an advantage!!! The only thing fun in Phantasy Star Online was cheating :). Especially since I made the cheats myself so I didn't give myself off right a way. Though it was generally clear once people started noticing I was killing stuff with misses.> These and many more differences are why storytelling and MMORPGs rarely go together. Any significant plot rarely goes with games. The more you have of it generally the worse the game gets. Come to think of it, these are also some reasons why actual role-playing rarely goes on in a Massively Multiplayer Online Role Playing Game. Roleplaying doesn't work online. If you want it done right table-top is the only way to go. | |
Kunark wrote:
MMORPG with a setting and history, emersing you into an environment rich in tales and rumors, that allows you to explore those tales/rumors = Good. Yeah, that's probably the best way to go. Give the game world itself and any permanent NPCs within it a story, and let the player's explore the world's story. You could even stick some random NPCs in a tavern or whatnot somewhere and have them give out random quests in harmony with the world's story. Random idea: Have a game world that uses an overworld map, where you enter a tile and that warps you to a town map, etc... Have a dynamic list of quests in the world, perhaps 10-20 at any given time, depending on the size of the world. Place various NPCs through the world randomly to inform players of the current quests. When a new quest is created, open up new towns on the overworld map that players can enter (use a similar system to the dungeon-researching in Darke Dungeon). Once the dungeon has been "solved", the big bad monster defeated or the artifact recovered, remove the quest, and remove the NPC who informs players of it. Add another quest, and another NPC, and players will have to search through the world to find the new quests as they come, keeping everyone occupied with searching for new adventures. Well, sounds good to me anyway. | |
If you are such a fan of plotless games, how come I never see you in the popular ones here on BYOND? :P
I personally can't see how anyone could enjoy a game that is just limitless killing without anything else, especially here on BYOND, because BYOND makes the features in those games that even focus on say the battle system and multi-player fighting very limited. | |
Because he's a fan of GAMES, not stories with game-type elements, and definitely not glorified treadmills.
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Kunark wrote:
I personally can't see how anyone could enjoy a game that is just limitless killing without anything else, especially here on BYOND, because BYOND makes the features in those games that even focus on say the battle system and multi-player fighting very limited. The limitless killing is required to gain power. And there are plenty of people on BYOND who like having power... Though personally I'd like to be the one with the popular "pay4power" game going. I'm sure there are plenty of people who'd rather just pay me money to get power instead of repeating the same action over and over to get it. Besides, "money is power". | |
If you are such a fan of plotless games, how come I never see you in the popular ones here on BYOND? :P It's not that I hate games with plot. I just hate it when the plot is the only thing there is to the game other than some crappy combat system thrown in for the sake of calling it a game. There are plenty of plotless games that are just bad because they just aren't fun. Most BYOND games just aren't great because of the inresponsivness of BYOND itself :P. Then there is also the fact that even in commercial games I have yet to see many if any games that didn't have an awful, gaggy, predictable plot filled with all your classic cliches(and generally it only gets worse when they try to aoivd them). Some PC games are decent but console ones tend to be horrifically awful. PC games are also much more forgiving as they generally let you skip through most of it. I personally can't see how anyone could enjoy a game that is just limitless killing without anything else I can't either. But generally most single player PC RPGs have a cool character development system and it's fun to play with various character builds and their tactical options trying to make the most effecient killer :). Bad gameplay will make a game game regardless of any frills you add like plot. , especially here on BYOND, because BYOND makes the features in those games that even focus on say the battle system Nothing wrong with focusing on the battle system if it's fun. Though I have yet to see anyone pull off a decent combat model with decent tactical and character development options. and multi-player fighting very limited. That's why you just ditch real-time. There is a whole lot more you can do with turn-based combat models than you can with real-time ones since you can't handle a lot more fine details without the hectic mess that real time tends to bring. Though having turn-based combat in a massively multiplayer setting would be quite challanging to tackle and have it reasonable :). | |
I'm sorely tempted to yell at you for making such claims, but I'll restrain myself.
It's true that games aren't ALWAYS better with a story. Tetris, for example, doesn't need a story. But... Theodis wrote: Story like graphics, sound, and any other media for the game serves only to make a first impression and generally is largely ignored once you get into the game play. Largely ignored? Hardly. Perhaps you ignore it, but I and many other people happen to like story, thanks very much. I'm playing Thief 3 at the moment (good game) and the story makes it a lot more interesting. Without a story, it'd just be some random guy sneaking around stealing stuff; fun to play, but not nearly as involving. I think we have different definitions of "story". You're simply assuming that narratives always get in the way, which is definitely wrong. In most cases, the game flows between gameplay and story nicely. Even when that doesn't happen, it's far more enjoyable to sit back and not get annoyed by it. Just treat it as a short break. A lot of things in life are only annoying because you let them annoy you. | |
Yeah I was planning on doing something like that. The world has a history already and I will put pernament quests and temporary unique quests. Thx for the help ^_^
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Hm... I have read all of your opinions. They all sound good to me. I have come up with an idea! ^_^
I am going to make a history for the world of the game so the people will have a better understanding of the game. There won't be a main story that everyone will stick to though... everyone will have their own storyline in an undropable journal which will show their important accomplishments such as completing a quest or reaching a certain level in something or taming a rare animal/caught a rare fish or maybe got 1st place in a tournament. Of course, there won't be the same quests over and over again. There will be unique quests that might show up once a week, a month, or a quest that will only be there once and then gone forever. There will be player wipes in the game once every 6 months. 6 months will equal 1 year in the game. There will be a Hall of Fame building which will show pernament records for people that had better stats than anyone else before a player wipe. There will be different rooms for different records such as "Highest Level", "Highest Smithing Level", "Most Players Killed", "Most Quests Completed" and "Most Devilball Games Won" (A mini-game I will be putting in the game). And it will show 1 icon sized portraits of the person with the game year printed on the bottom. And when a player "reads" it then it will tell the game name and key of the 3 best players that won the award. I never heard of any game having that in them. Well, what do you guys think? | |
It sounds pretty lame. I mean, within 6 months it'll most likely be that your game won't be played much. So it'll be the same people on the records. Then people will get mad of their character being deleted. Trust me, that idea of "Hall of Fame" is simple and has probably come accross many people's minds, including mine. Except I didn't have a game to put it in. =)
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Actually I suppose whether you should have a story or not is dependant on the kind of MMORPG you had in mind. Some MUDs out there work nicely with an ever-present plot in the background, guided by the admins/GMs/etc. It can make things a lot more interesting. But if your game is based on the idea that mindless killing with the goal of gaining levels and power is fun, most people aren't going to care about any story that comes with.
Singleplayer RPGs with a story work much better, because there are no other players around to ruin things, and players can slow down and absorb whatever story there is.